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Platform Chats
Platform Chats
2024 Hiring Trends
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Soft skills, that little extra something.…what does it take to match the right person to the right job in the rail industry? Hiring qualified employees is critical in the railroad industry, these two guests are at the forefront. Kevin Forrest, Talent Advisor at CSX, and Andrew Stahl, Founder of Stahl Recruiting, understand the ins and outs of the rail industry, what companies are looking for, and how to set yourself apart from the crowd. Railroading is a lifestyle and the whole person matters. Recruiting trends, the importance of a holistic fit in the workplace, and the efficiency of rail, this episode touches on it all. If you are interested in a career in the rail industry, you won’t want to miss it.
After the episode, be sure to check out the Railway Careers Network to jumpstart your career in rail.
The railroad industry has been viewed kind of as old school for a long time, kicking and screaming going into technology, but that's changing markedly. And I think one of the things we need to do as an industry as a whole is market that to younger generations. It doesn't hit the radar at all. I think of a guy talked to me that I asked him how he got into the railroad industry. He was with BNSF, and he thought he went at a college fair to BASF, which is the pharmaceutical. You know, it was an acronym mess up, but it turned out to be fortuitous for him and a great thing. But the the the fact is that just it just is not their first choice. They don't not aware of it and it's really not aligned with technology.
SPEAKER_01You may know the American Railway Engineering and Maintenance of Way Association, or AREMA, as the quote, keepers of the manuals. You may know them as the quote people behind the largest annual railroad conference in North America. Heck, you may not know about AREMA at all. This podcast is designed, no pun intended, to change your view of who AREMA is and how AREMA has changed the trajectory of many railway careers over its 100-plus year history. Welcome to Platform Chats with your host Walt Blesser, where he takes a moment to discuss the impacts AREMA has had on the very people who are proud to be called members. Are you ready to roll with AREMA?
SPEAKER_02ARE Corporation is a proud supporter of AREMA and Platform Chats. If you are looking to take your railway structure's career to the next level, or simply start it down the right track, please visit us at ARECorp.com. Please see our brand new job postings on our careers page or on our LinkedIn page.
SPEAKER_03Hey everybody, and welcome back to yet another episode of Platform Chats. I'm your host, Walt Blesser. Believe it or not, we are in season three of Platform Chats. It's hard to believe. This is the second episode of the year. Uh for those of you that prefer a numerical uh order. This is roughly episode number 31. I can't believe I just said that. 31 of these things. Um, I remember the first one like it was yesterday. But it has uh we've really evolved over the last three years, and I hope that the content is still interesting uh enough for you to download and listen to it. So if you're if you're still doing that, I appreciate it. And Arima appreciates it uh we very much. And we're gonna continue to try throughout 2024 to bring new and exciting topics and uh guests onto the show. Uh we did drop from the top uh industry, railway industry podcast. We went from number nine to number ten. I will do my best to try to get us back up to number nine, if not eight, uh, by releasing more content as we go. All right, well, enough about that. We're recording this in February. Uh by the time this gets released, I bet many of you will have come back from the resiliency symposium in Tampa and or the structures, uh large structures group meeting in Tampa, and I hope that really went as well as could be. We've got a lot of people that spent a lot of time on both of those events, and I'm really hoping that they turn out uh as well as we think they are. Today we are going to be talking about recruiting in the rail industry, and that's the reason I brought on two industry experts in recruiting. I've got uh an individual who has a has their own uh recruiting firm, and then I also actually have an owner's uh representation of recruiting in the industry, as I have a guest here from CSX. I'm very excited to hear uh both of their perspectives on uh hiring trends in the rail industry and different talents we're looking for in individuals that are looking to join the industry. And if you've been listening to this podcast for a while, you know uh we are very much trying to uh get people excited about being a part of the industry. So with that, I do have uh Mr. Kevin Forrest with CSX on the line here. And he is a talent advisor for CSX, and I also have Andrew Stahl, who's the owner of Stahl Recruiting, which is an executive search firm in the rail industry. We're gonna start uh with Kevin, if he could give us just a brief background on who he is and how in the world he became a talent advisor for CSX. Have at it, Kevin. Sure. Thanks, Paul.
SPEAKER_04I'm happy to be on here with you. So give you a rundown. I've been with CSX Railroad for just about eight months. Um I did work in the industry for just about 14 years for Union Pacific Railroad in a similar capacity where I worked um 11 years in human resources there. So at CSX, I oversee the hiring of our management employees and within the main the mechanical and engineering departments. So uh here at the company was drawn here by changes in leadership. The current position of the company and trajectory that we're on. I have absolutely nothing but great things to say about my time at Union Pacific. I'm from Omaha, Nebraska, where Union Pacific's headquarters is. So growing up there, my grandpa's basement was full of trains, model trains, that UP brand and that that shield was ingrained in me from a young age. So I always had a very high regard when I went to college at the University of Nebraska at Omaha, and I had a few professors that either worked and retired from Union Pacific or were consultants with Union Pacific and just had the nothing but great things to say about them. So I was drawn to them and was lucky enough to start working after I finished my undergrad um with UP. So just a hair under 15 years total with class ones personally.
SPEAKER_03Well, does your uh hopefully your grandfather doesn't know that you're at CSX now?
SPEAKER_04Uh he'd be okay. Unfortunately, he's no longer with us, but I think uh he'd be very proud to know that I'm in the industry and that you know, just it really he passed the torch with how much of a pastime and how important the industry is to the to commerce, I think he'd be happy.
SPEAKER_03Awesome. That's very cool. So you do you must have recently relocated from Omaha to Jacksonville.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, correct. We had a quick quick stop in Arkansas, but I'm I'm from Nebraska, and Jacksonville was also another uh another drawing point to the company. Just my wife and our family have an affinity for Florida, so giving up the Nebraska winters and continuing to move southeast has been a win for us.
SPEAKER_03I was gonna say, right, this is the time of year you're probably clicking on weather.com and just uh smiling.
SPEAKER_04Uh yeah, winter's pretty much over now on February 1st. So that's the first time I've ever said that before.
SPEAKER_03I could hear you. I hear you. Andrew, don't think we're gonna forget you, my friend. Uh, why don't if you could just do a brief background on how in the world did you become a recruiter in this industry?
SPEAKER_00Sure, sure. Well, first of all, great to have me. Thank you for this opportunity. Lots of good clients uh within you guys' folded arema. Um came in a bit tangential. I mean, uh had the ubiquitous, you know, model railroad set from grandpa as well, so that tie in. But really grew up on a farm, had a menagerie of animals, a 150 head of sheep. Uh, my sister became a vet, and along the way I segued into economics in grad school. And when I came out of that, I structured financial derivatives of all things, but it wasn't really where I wanted to be. And looking to get into the industry, I've always had a bent for the railroads. I reached out to an executive search agency and they gave me an opportunity, and I really enjoyed it, and uh always had an entrepreneurial bent. Uh my parents bought and sold properties and motels, and so uh 10 years ago now opened up my own shingles, so to speak, and have uh serviced the rail industry since. Excellent. And you where are you sitting right now? Right now I'm sitting up in Oregon, normally I'm based out of Texas, uh, but the firm itself works across North America. Um, mid-level to C-suite roles, ADPs, directors. Um, and we worked more granularly, I guess you'd say, with railways, bridge and engineering firms, technology firms, rail car lessors, uh, really anything that touches the track work.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so you're seeing a wide swath of uh positions in the industry. So very cool, and thank you both for being on on the show today. So let's talk a little bit about hiring trends in the rail industry. Um I am gonna push this one towards Kevin. Um if maybe you could talk a little bit about the overall employment landscape in the rail sector, what's growing, what's in high demand. Heck, what's shrunk since uh uh little thing called COVID happened, I think about two or three years ago. Anything you want to touch on there? Go ahead.
SPEAKER_04Sure. So, of course, as you guys know, the railroad is considered a central work. So we we didn't have the ability to shut down or you know, that being said, we did we were able to accommodate more hybrid or remote work for positions that you know that could be dictated. But of course, when your your job is to move freight, you know, for customers and keep the goods moving that the country relies on, um, that requires you know in-person attendance. So we did continue hiring. Um, and we I'd say that's kind of our approach is is pretty moderate. Um, I would say it's it would be rare for us to completely shut down or or uh diminish hiring to very small numbers, just with the size of any of the class ones we're perpetually hiring. So, you know, that landscape changes. You know, of course, some some jobs evolve over time based on technology and in complexity, and we're always looking. Innovation is one of our key pillars here at CSX, so we're always utilizing enhancements in technology to bring uh added value to our customers, um, to the workplace culture. Um, so definitely we're keeping up with technology trends and how those are leveraged with, you know, in tandem with engineering. And of course, with the REMA, you know, we have great relationships with AREMA chapters across the country, especially in the areas that CSX we operate in the the eastern part of the country. But you know, we constantly interact with students that have an affinity for the industry and constantly we have management training programs where we tend to hire more of that audience in mass. Um, but all the time we're hiring, we have needs. If you were to go to the CSX website today, you could see a wide variety of engineering uh positions that we're looking to hire for specific locations that that is pretty much always the case. The volume may ebb and flow a little bit, but we never we never turn it off. Um so constant need for talent. So I would encourage obviously if people are have been involved with a REMAR or they currently are. That's a great outlet to get in touch with employers that you know would would be able to bring them on or have a mutual mutual interest, you know, to set them up as well as possible if they're going into their first job at a railroad or if they're working for another class one or a short line or somewhere in the industry, maybe even for a vendor or someone along those lines or even a customer. Um, just kind of find your way to get the foot in the door and figure out kind of where your best landing spot is.
SPEAKER_03You you said a couple things there. I, you know, when COVID did hit, I I felt like the freight railroads uh look at what's going on in the world landscape, and it seems like they take advantage wherever they can, in the sense that when car loads slow down, or if they slow down, it seems like they get out there and do more work on the track because they've got more track time and they're always fighting for track time. And then that's ebbs and flows when the car loads are are high. It just it seems to always kind of keep on keeping on. It's not it's not a sign curve, if you will. Uh is how I that's how I heard what you said.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you're exactly right. And if if anything, for a lot of our jobs that we hire, just if you look at the volume of jobs that we bring on most commonly, so like freight conductors um or on the engineering side, people that that handled the track maintenance and for our structures. Like if anything, some of those jobs we hired more um in COVID because the demand for the demand for goods didn't really change. If anything, we needed more people in in a lot of areas during the times of COVID. And, you know, that's some of that has, you know, that wasn't just temporary, but if, you know, we had maybe a little bit different of experience for us where we were actually hiring more positions than normal because of COVID in some uh some examples.
SPEAKER_03Interesting. Well, you top you touched on two other topics I want to hand over here to Andrew. You did talk a little bit about technology and automation. Uh can ebb and flow uh with with how you hire folks. And then and so Andrew, if you could maybe talk a little bit about how the impact of technology and automation has affected the the workforce. And also, since you have a broader, maybe maybe a little bit broader vision, you could also talk a little bit about how that compares and what he said compares and contrasts with other transportation industries. So he made it sound like they're kind of their taps always on, it's just different amount of water coming out. Would you say that's similar to trucking and airlines, etc.?
SPEAKER_00Wow, it's uh let me unpack that a little bit. I guess going back to earlier comment, Walt, about COVID, I think things just markedly changed at that point. Um, from an executive search firm, I was expecting the floor to drop out, honestly, and it was actually the inverse of that. Um, so a lot of things have changed uh on that regard. Um, thinking more recently at the NRC conference in Scottsdale, had a lot of good meets, and the overall takeaway was that there was a lot of uh positivity going forward, a lot of outreach for adding people to the fold, whether it's project management or it's business development. And when clients are willing to do that, that shows me there's a positivity there uh for sure. Um, if you look at kind of the macro economy, it's kind of mix and match. I mean, we've had inflation, which is kind of uh works against most everybody, 18-20% groceries uh increases. Uh you've seen a reflection of the Federal Reserve upping interest rates to kind of tamp that down. So that's changed things like the like mortgage market, for instance, and people's ability to move. Um, but the same token on a positive side, consumer confidence is at a record high. And the Dow just hate hit 38,000. So it's not a clear all everything's gangbusters or conversely, everything's negative. Um, I do think that there's been a little bit of a tamping on the brakes, maybe not really in the rail industry as much, though I think Evenna laying off about 10% of the Union Pacific, and then I think a 7% is upcoming here for Norfolk Southern, and that kind of dovetails with uh the the Cohen guys, Jason Seidel and and Matt Elcott, talking about volumes of rail cars. Those have been kind of in a slow slide from my readings of things. Um, not my expertise, but just taking that from the readings. So I see like when you look at Uber Freight and uh FedEx, they've laid off some folks, you know. Um, and so I see a little bit of that in a sense that we've been quite steady in a lot of inquiries, but I think it'd be wrong to not say that business doesn't like uncertainty, and there's a lot of uncertainty out there uh just with the upcoming election, with the Middle East and the Red Sea, you know, Saber rattling with China, North Korea. There's just a lot of things, and again, businesses don't like instability, and so I'm not seeing a break, but I'm seeing a little bit of a of a slowing, just just kind of uh mapping out, if you will. Fair enough.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I could see I could see that, and I I think that uh that's probably gonna affect almost all industries as we head into an election year, if you would agree with that.
SPEAKER_00Oh, and the other part of your question was the thrust in technology. Um I think that's that's a major thrust right now, and that really dovetails with the upcoming generations, the millennials and Z, uh Z Generation Z. They have a different outlook than older generations, and they're also more digital natives. It comes to them naturally. So we're I think what I see in the big, big picture is that corporations are adjusting the generations from the older to the young to the younger ones coming in. At the same time, there's a steady pull across the board for engineering and technology talent. Engineering, whether it's civil, mechanical, electrical, whatever the discipline is, and the same on technology side, heavy pull, not only from the rail industry, uh, but healthcare, pharmaceuticals. Um, I read a recent article with 229,000 openings in the IT arena, technology arena. So there's a lot of demand out there, more demand than their capacity we have in the US to fill that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, in my own little world that I play in, which is maintenance of way engineering, uh consulting, etc., uh, we're finding it that there are far more people looking, uh excuse me, far more employers with open positions than there are people to fill those open positions. And since you touched on the younger generations, um either of you can talk, well, maybe both of you can talk to this. Do you really feel like the railroad industry is on the radar of today's college graduates? And either of you can go first. In fact, let's let's give that one to Kevin.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I would say it's uh a little bit up and down or hit or miss, I guess, if you will, just based on where people live geographically. Um they may have you know seen locomotives or recognized the brand, but you know, a lot of people like when I you know tell people that I work for a railroad, sometimes their brain goes to he punches tickets on the train, you know, he then they see you know the kids' cartoons, they see, you know, old school, some some documentary talks about, you know, the railroad. They think it's like a pastime. So, you know, a lot of times we do, you know, we do see some places you'll go there and they'll have uh brand awareness with us or some other class one that we can kind of get on the same page as them pretty quickly. And to some people it's a surprise that railroads are still as as big and they employ as many people as they do, and then we do have, you know, how like we've been talking about technology where, you know, a lot of the jobs like on the maintenance away side historically have been, you know, people like track inspectors, uh, people that go out there and remediate and identify defects and make sure we're in compliance with our with our standards and like FRA standards. And, you know, now if you send somebody out there, they may see like a wayside defect detector system where you know we're we're utilizing technology to do a lot of those things, or we're sending the you know ultras ultrasound or non-destructive testing equipment over rails to, you know, for weeks on a time and crunching data to help identify things that even the most you know keen track inspector that's been out there on this, you know, this track from milepost to milepost for 30 years, you know, they can only be be uh so accurate. So I mean, the way that we utilize technology when we bring some of those things to the forefront, especially when you talk about uh people that are still in in college or you know, you're talking about these younger generations that care deeply about carbon emissions and you know, environmentally, you know, being responsible. And that's something I'm proud of about CSX. I mean, that's a big selling point for us when we tell people, you know, we can easily quantify um how efficiently we can move freight. You know, we can quantify that to gallons of diesel and carbon emissions. And we even have new calculator tools for our customers or prospective customers where they can look at, you know, like a carbon emission calculator and they can compare that to truck, you know, and they can compare, and that's not to say that we're not relying on trucks, not everybody's got uh tracks running up to you know all their facilities. So we we help people with that dock-to-dock or trains loading. There's all sorts of things that we can do to help connect people to rail. And and some of my previous rail experience, that was job number one is go find people that aren't rail served, you know, people that don't naturally think, hey, why would I utilize rail because I don't have tracks near me where we can we can find people and make them aware of those. And then, you know, a lot of times they're just blown away by you know how much better of a proposition it is from a cost perspective and an environmental perspective, and truly from a safety perspective. Like I said, we're still relying on trucks, but if we can move freight efficiently and safely and you know take some trucks off the road, you know, it's probably not the worst thing in the world for it's it's often a win-win for everybody. So just making sure people are aware of that, and a lot of times this this is news, but once they hear it, it really piques their interest.
SPEAKER_03I think this is a perfect segue, Andrew, for you to capitalize on some of the things he just said in the sense that uh those are some of the hiring trends, and we can talk a little bit about what what are the talents that the railroads are seeking. Specifically, he talked about tech I heard a lot of STEM, right? I think I think that's what I really heard. I heard instead of, hey, we're not just gonna have you walk down this track anymore looking at ties for miles and miles and miles, you might be sitting behind a computer reviewing a supplier's delivered uh big data set uh uh uh of scanned ties using laser scanners for for because that's what's out there, right? So perhaps you could talk a little bit about specific skills and qualities the railroads are seeking in potential employees, whether those are technical, soft skills, leadership skills. Andrew, when you see a resume come to you, what what gets you excited about saying, Oh, I think I can find this guy a job?
SPEAKER_00Well, we'll be back into that. I guess uh Kevin, I I agree with his points that uh largely off the radar for sure.
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SPEAKER_00But there's a big demand. Technology is hitting us full force across society, and including in the railroad industry. I mean, you think of passenger information systems, fuel management, fuel video surveillance. There's a lot of jobs that require software, hardware, skill, design, project management, but they require a technical understanding. Even on the sales and business development side, we get a lot of calling for folks that don't necessarily need how to glibly write code, but they need to understand the features and benefits of the systems, the engineering systems and the communication systems, and to convey that. So even if you're not an IT person per se, there's still that calling and that bent. And the railroad industry has been viewed kind of as old school for a long time, kicking and screaming going into technology, but that's changing markedly. And I think one of the things we need to do as an industry as a whole is market that to younger generations. It doesn't hit the radar at all. I think of a guy talked to me that I asked him how he got into the railroad industry, he was with BNSF, and he thought he went at a college fair to BASF, which is the pharmaceutical. You know, it was an acronym mess up, but it turned out to be fortuitous for him and a great thing. But the the the fact is that just it just is not their first choice. They don't not aware of it and really not aligned with with technology as it's I love I love that story.
SPEAKER_03I I really do. Thank you for the he went to the wrong booth and landed landed himself a job that turned out to be where he needed to be. So maybe there was someone else working in that equation. I don't know, trying to push that guy in the right direction. Um, well, let's let's keep moving down this this same this road here of uh there's a lot of different career paths available in the rail industry, right? So we've been talking a lot about engineering and technology, but there's maintenance, there's management. I mean, i is there a brief overview you can give there, Kevin, of of what CSX and I realize I bet if I went on your website there's hundreds of open positions, but maybe you could give just a brief overview of what is available to job seekers.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you bet. Well, any at any given time you could go to our site or UP or BNSF or NS or anybody else and see what's open. You're you're always going to see quite a few openings. Like with my personal story, when I became aware of Union Pacific, I was a I had a concentration in human resources, knowing that's where I wanted to be. But lo and behold, when I graduated, UP was not hiring very many human resource uh positions. So I I didn't come into the company in a human resource job. I worked in logistics, where like my first week and my onboarding, I learned about way bills and learned about seals on intermodal containers and how customs paperwork works when we cross containers from Mexico into the US and the US into Canada, and you know, all the different tools that we use to track, you know, and have transparency with our customers so they don't have to pick up the phone every time they wonder where something is and if it's running on time and right, technology's helped advance all that stuff. But I'm kind of a shining example of know what you want to do and by all means go after that. But if you know you want to work for a class one and they're only hiring, you know, a maintenance away job, you know, an entry-level maintenance away job or an entry-level mechanical job or freight conductor, if that's not what you want to do for the rest of your life, know that you got to get your foot in the door somewhere. And the vast majority of our postings are gonna be internal only. So there's, you know, only so many of those are gonna hit the street that you're gonna see on our on our job site. So, you know, you might have to get your foot in the door, you know, and then in my case, I learned how freight moved across our railroad. So I mean, what I learned there and did for about two and a half years was invaluable to me personally. And just through my career, even though I've been in HR for the vast majority of my career, you know, that could be a deciding factor between me and another HR person if a job is heavily tied to operations or mechanical or engineering, them knowing that I had a more field-oriented role and you know that I know the nuts and bolts of how freight moves. I mean, that does separate people. So I would just encourage people, don't get discouraged, know that, especially at class ones, the applicant volume is extraordinary. You're competing against people that are have been working in the industry their entire careers. You're working against a pretty large population of people. So stay, stay positive, uh, stay vigilant, and just kind of get your foot in the door in the best capacity as you can, even if it's not you know your dream job that you're chasing.
SPEAKER_03So, Andrew, can you pile onto that? Uh you know, we're uh let's see if we've got uh any hot takes here on the on the podcast for insider tips on how some of these job seekers can can get noticed based on what Kevin just said.
SPEAKER_00Sure. Well, I one, you know, contact your friendly recruiting agency, knock knock when quink, you know, of course. But um, you know, I I think the the long-term picture of the railroad industry is very, very strong. It's not going anywhere, it's integral to our goods and commodities. The transit arena is quite busy right now with a lot of infrastructure projects coming to fruition. But I guess if I was to point out to people coming into the industry, no matter whether you're with a class one or a contractor or on the engineering side, you there's finance, there's marketing, there's design, there's operations, project management, any discipline that you really have a draw for, there is a calling for it, whether it's directly with the railroads themselves or any ancillary industry. So, and it's and it's a wonderful industry filled with great people, and it's not going anywhere. It's got a great history, it's integral to connecting with ports and intermodal and and airlines, the, you know, it's it's all part of that web of systems. So it's a great industry to be a part of.
SPEAKER_03And so how does, you know, I remember when I was up, uh, this is many, many, many moons ago, I was working on a on a vertical lift bridge replacement up there up in Connecticut. And it was for Amtrak. And I remember meeting a couple of young, very young individuals uh that were coming to the job site occasionally. This was I think this was over the summer. And Amtrak had a designation called Management Trainee, uh, where they were bringing in individuals and they were allowing college graduates to basically they were getting a taste of each area. At this time, the guy was doing something with structures. Uh, he may move on to somewhere else. Is that pretty common to to is that I mean, is that something that just Amtrak does, or is that a CSX or uh have you heard of them doing this at other class when railroads are bringing in young people out of school to try to help them find their best fit?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, absolutely. We you know, I can speak to Union Pacific and CSX. They both have management training programs tied to, you know, specifically transportation, specifically engineering or mechanical. And those are kind of the vehicles where they bring people in and batch, if you will. And so that's going to be a combined effort of, you know, people that are coming straight from university, people that are more mid-career, people that are transitioning from the military, you know, all different walks of life that are aware and interested in in the company. And we do have it uh internships also. So, like at CSX, we have four operations internships for this coming summer of 2024. And we we've uh some one of the interns is working on the design and construction team, um, working with like bridges and structures. We've got some that are working with like fleet assets, we have some that are working more with positive train control and technology. But I mean, some a few of these students are local. They're gonna be like University of Florida, but we have a student coming from Penn State University, which has a their campus in Altoona has a real transportation engineering program. So we have a kind of a relationship with them where you know we support each other, right? They're educating people that have an affinity for the industry. And, you know, we we have some internships there. And when we can get students in internships or look to hire them full-time, that's a win-win for everybody. So I would say that's definitely the case with CSX.
SPEAKER_03Anything you want to pile on there, Andrew, that might not be may or may not be in your bailiwick.
SPEAKER_00Sure, sure. Uh we we generally do mid-level to senior level placements and not entry, but when cut folks come to us for that, we always point them towards the class ones. You know, they have an excellent training ground, excellent benefits, a complete breadth of experience, whether it's engineering or finance or whatever you want to go to. And I've noticed going on the management trainee program, a lot of the higher-level guys that have been successful in their careers, a lot of times they were picked out by the class ones for that exposure. And it's wonderful exposure. You can get everything from finance to operations. You kind of learn the whole enchilada, a little bit of piece of everything, how it all fits together. And as you go up in your career into the upper echelons and C-suite, having that knowledge is tremendous. And it brings a lot of credibility as well.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, agreed. And um it just uh I keep hearing uh kind of a theme of the more exposure you can get to the different areas of the railroad, the better. Um and coming in at well, coming in at a management trainee sounds like an easy way to do that. Mid-level, senior level, I I I'm guessing a lot of that's gonna have to do with and maybe you can talk a little bit about that too, Andrew, is what does a mid-level to senior level candidate, a good looking one, look like? Someone with pure class one experience, or is it someone that maybe has worked at a consulting firm? Uh what are you looking for there?
SPEAKER_00Oh gosh, it there it's the resume not is not nearly as important. And you know, when we when we get a particular search for a client, they're usually looking for particular things. And so on on a base level, it's the background skill set. Do they have the skill set, so to speak, rudimentary to do the job? That's just kind of a baseline. But I put a lot more weight on the synergies, if you will, the personality, the DNA. You you can't teach someone a work ethic or ethics or that extra drive. And that's really what I'm looking for as as running a search firm. You know, I'm looking for that extra something that whether it was the signaling through being picked out to a management trainee program, to just their it's almost a glibly, and I hate to say this kind of, it's almost like a dating analogy in the sense that you want to fit in with the team really well. That that's I put a greater weight to that than what's on the resume because you have to like who you're working with. Statistically, most people leave their jobs not because they don't like their job, it's because they don't like who they're working with. And if you have a boss that you can't that you clash with, clash with, it makes a very long day in the office and week, if you will. So I I guess to wrap back, obviously the skill set's really important, but there's also the career trajectory of the individual. How does that fit in with where they want to reside, their family, their children? It's it's a holistic approach for an introduction, and you're always aiming for a long-term fit. And that's how I that's how I focus on things and approach things.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Yeah, no, that that uh couldn't have said that better myself. So I guess when we also talked about trajectory of the individual, why don't we talk briefly about the trajectory of the of the industry? I mean, uh future opportunities, do you see them growing in the next several years? I mean, no one has a crystal ball. Um I guess Kevin used the term earlier of you know, not ever turning the tap off completely, just changing the flow of what's coming out of the tap. What do you guys see in say the next three to five years? Are we on a growth curve here for the industry and hiring or no?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I can jump in first. I'm I'm optimistic. I mean, I think that we we are pretty moderate as a company, CSX. We're careful about the volume of people that we bring on. We do our best, like you said, nobody's got a crystal ball, but we don't do a service to anybody to overhire, you know, and be in a position to not have people be able to hold a position because we invest, you know, time in recruiting and time in training. And so we're looking for you know long-term stability too. So that being said, we do still see growth opportunities and yeah, we're we're definitely leaning on, you know, traditional disciplines of engineering that are required for certain jobs. And like with Andrew, if like I would just echo some of his points. If you're somebody that's in the industry or looking to be in the industry, I would I would just look at ways that you can differentiate yourself. Like like Andrew said, I would definitely uh I would definitely say that a lot of times it's not the technical expertise that would separate candidates from you know from entry level, even mid-level um jobs. A lot of times it is the soft skills, it is their ability to work well um with others and kind of those intangibles that, you know, we've as a company, we have uh we have a belief or you know, we understand the universities that students would have gone to, or if they've gone through technical training, et cetera. Like we have faith in those processes. So kind of look into those things that you can do as a person to control some more of those intangibles and how you represent that to companies because, you know, like when we look at students in college, for example, you may have one student that has a perfect 4.0, but they're not real active, right? They're not involved in student organizations or they're not working outside of school, hypothetically. And then you've got a student that's got a 3.1, you know, but they're working a job and they're the president of their REMA chapter, or they're involved in, you know, nonprofit, et cetera. We're always going to take that second candidate, um, I would say, um, because that's the industry that we're in too, because we we love to see demonstrated leadership. We love to see people that can carry a heavy bandwidth, because you both know, and hopefully most people listening to this, if it's hopefully this isn't news to you, but railroading is not a typical industry. It's a lifestyle, you know. So that's there are things that you have to be willing to accept. So if you can do your due diligence and make sure that you understand that and you're on board for that ride, and then look look at maybe at those intangibles that could separate you. I think that would help mitigate maybe some instability or variability in hiring volumes. That would be my advice. I like that a lot.
SPEAKER_00Uh, you want to pile onto that, Andrew? Sure. Uh overall, I think positive, uh, leaning back towards the tech industry or a tech knowledge base and skill set, that's gonna be continual, if not increasing, demand. Um, thinking about the Rail Trends Conference recently in November, a lot of the CEOs were talking about a customer focus and re-emphasis on that and pulling some of the business away from the trucking side, our friends over there. So that tells me that you're gonna need more people to form those touches. Um, and I think too, there's a somewhat of a hesitancy to lay off people to a certain degree. Obviously, that was contrasted with UP and upcoming with Norfolk Southern, but I think there's a general hesitancy to let people go because they're afraid that if they let them go and the economy upswings or or the demand increases, they're gonna have a hard time getting those people back. So I guess there's maybe a way of stickiness, if you will. There's a bit of stickiness in there that I think for the individual is a positive thing, and probably arguably for the country, company as a whole as well.
SPEAKER_03And are you seeing, Andrew? I mean, you don't need to show all your cards, but I mean, are you seeing uh are are you are there more are you doing more searches now than you were two years ago? The same, less more so, more so.
SPEAKER_00More so, okay. Yeah, we we received steady, steady inquiries, things have been quite nice, can't complain at all. Um I wouldn't say it's been gangbuster, I think that would be a misnomer, but uh nicely steady, no complaints at all, honestly.
SPEAKER_03And as we maybe as we exit here, the this is a possibly a really good place to wrap this up. Um are you working solely with uh business owners searching for individuals or individuals searching for businesses?
SPEAKER_00Uh both. We we get a lot of our business honestly from referrals. I I don't have the metric in front of me. If I was roughly guess, I'd say maybe 20%, which which makes me really happy as an owner. And they can be referrals from individuals we've helped or have had contacted with or from companies that have heard about us and reached out to us. So it really comes through two directions, if you will. And an individual I may talk with at an AREMA conference and have a conversation with them, we may not do business for another year and a half, but he'll kind of be in the big Rolodex and keep touch with them. And that opportunity that comes out, and I think like, oh my gosh, Fred might be just a fit for this because he was wanting this, this, and this, and and and you make an introduction, and that's it's a very long arc, if you will.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Yeah, so I think the the point here I'm making too is if you're listening to this and you like what Andrew has to say or others, uh, it doesn't sound like a bad idea just to reach out and start that conversation because this could be a it could be a one, two, three-year deal, it could be a two-month deal. Um, and then going to Kevin, I I assume you guys probably have a very robust job board that people would need to access through your portal at csx.com. And I don't want to I don't want to answer your question for you, but I'm assuming it's more of a formal process of of applying for open positions.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you're exactly right. csx.com and you can click on uh job postings or career opportunities. It's going to show you what's posted right now. You can filter by by location, city-state, you can filter by department, you can filter by requires degree, doesn't require degree, etc. Um, so that's your easiest way to see what we have posted. But by all means, I mean, do your research on the industry. And you know, like Andrew said, look, look for people, go to fairs, you know, go don't be afraid to connect with people on LinkedIn. And, you know, oftentimes uh people are more than willing to lend you an ear. Like we are we're all representatives of the industry, we love the industry. Where somebody messages me on LinkedIn, I do get a ton of messages. I answer everybody. Um, you know, anybody that reaches out to me and has questions about, hey, I've got 14 applications with CSX, I've only had one interview. What should I do? You know, or I work for another railroad or a shoreline, would love to come there. What's your advice? So, I mean, reach out to me, one of my peers, reach out to somebody else in the industry. I would say it's not a shot in the dark, you'd have a good chance of getting some good, genuine feedback on how to try to attain your goals.
SPEAKER_03Got it. Well, I got news for you. You just got another guy to try to connect with you on LinkedIn. I I think he's the one talking to you right now. So we'll we'll make that connection too. Is I I that's a great question. LinkedIn. I I don't want to leave this podcast till we talk briefly. Is that a great place to to have these conversations and and and find new positions, or is it is it convoluted these days with lots of it's just it has changed dramatically in the last uh 15 years. I mean, 15 years ago, I kind of thought it was a little bit of a joke, and now uh it's almost it's it's no different than an Instagram or a or a Facebook type of a feed of news. Uh is my take correct?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I would say so. And Andrew, if you want to jump in. In our case, I would say historically LinkedIn has been more of a resource for professional or management type positions. But we've we just had conversations with represent with our LinkedIn representative just a week and a half ago and they were you know big proponents and uh sending some data and information on their growing population on the union or craft side. So that it appears that that's gonna be more of a resource for us, where typically it's been more tailored to those professional professional or management type jobs, but the vast majority of our positions are gonna be craft or union. So if that's the case, we're just gonna lean more heavily on that.
SPEAKER_00Andrew? Yeah, I'd agree. I think it's a platform that you almost have to go because everyone else is, right? There's a synergy thing there. Um I would agree with your perspective on the change. Um, but I I for my firm, it's it's a nice launch point and it's a good way to touch people and have them aware of who you are. But we also as a firm use, you know, Instagram and and uh Twitter X and use different platforms because people listen on different channels, and that is the other thing, too, is we try multiple channels, not just LinkedIn, even though I enjoy LinkedIn.
SPEAKER_03Got it. Well, I'll tell you what, this has been a great podcast. You guys have got me even more excited about the future than I was when this this podcast started. It's uh it's been fun listening to both of you talk. It's been fun getting insight on uh both recruiting and applying and working in this industry. And I want to thank you both for coming on. I'll give uh both of you if you got a last word, this would be a time, great time to say it. And if not, that's fine too. Andrew, you can go first.
SPEAKER_00Oh, happy for the invite, happy to be here. Hope the conversation helps people. Um happy to help in any way, shape, or form that I can.
SPEAKER_03Thanks. And Andrew, your contact information.
SPEAKER_00Uh you can reach uh me at andrew at stallrecruiting.com or also info at stallrecruiting.com. And that is S-T-A-H-L. Yes, sir. That's correct.
SPEAKER_03Thanks, Andrew. Kevin?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, thanks. Well, appreciate you being on. Um Kevin Forrest, so F-O-R-R-E-S-T. You can look me up on LinkedIn and connect or send me a message if you want, and just appreciate talking railroad with you guys. We do it, you know, often, and it's one of my favorite things to do, so I'm happy to spend time with you.
SPEAKER_01Perfect. All right, guys, thank you. Thank you for rolling with Arima on today's episode of Platform Chats. For further information about Arima, please visit arema.org or contact us at info at arema.org.
