International Opportunities in the Rail Industry

On this episode, Walt chats with AREMA members James Michel (Railway Safety and Risk Management Consultant) and Thomas Cornille (Independent Consultant and former Watford Fellow), two members of the US Watford Committee as they share their experiences with the Watford Conference, an international conference for railroad professionals and on other international educational opportunities in the rail industry.  In rail, your career is only bounded by your curiosity, so hope on board as we take a trip around the globe.

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SPEAKER_03 0:00

Well one other very interesting point about Watford is it's geared towards er early career railroaders who are ARIMA committee members. Uh we've seen over the years that uh the chief engineer or his direct reports often get the uh assignment to go visit international facilities or go to international conferences. With Watford, we were trying to get younger folks uh who are in AREMA, this international exposure, to broaden their perspectives and prepare them for uh leadership roles later in their career. Uh Watford is used by the Japanese railways in this regard. They send almost 20 to 25 young engineers and young professionals every year to Watford as a training uh initiative, both to improve their English skills as well as to uh get knowledge of what other countries are doing. So this is a unique thing about Watford. It's really geared towards early career railroaders.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

You may know the American Railway Engineering and Maintenance of Way Association, or AREMA, as the quote, keepers of the manuals. You may know them as the quote people behind the largest annual railroad conference in North America. Heck, you may not know about AREMA at all. This podcast is designed, no pun intended, to change your view of who AREMA is and how AREMA has changed the trajectory of many railway careers over its 100-plus year history. Welcome to Platform Chat with your host, Walt Letzer, where he takes a moment to discuss the impacts AREMA has had on the very people who are proud to be called members. Are you ready to roll with AREMA?

SPEAKER_01 1:51

ARE Corporation is a proud supporter of AREMA and Platform Chats. If you are looking to take your railway structure's career to the next level, or simply start it down the right track, please visit us at ARECorp.com. Please see our brand new job postings on our careers page or on our LinkedIn page.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Hello and welcome to another episode of Platform Chats. I'm your host, Walt Blesser, and we have reached the end of a new uh well, we've reached the end of the year, folks. It's uh the last recording that we're gonna get out in uh the year 2022. We saved a good one for you, though. Got a great topic today. We're gonna be talking uh specifically about um AREMA and its role internationally. So uh we've talked a lot in the last several months about AREMA nationally. We talk a lot about um heavy haul rail in uh the US. Um AREMA actually does play a role in other things such as uh inner city commuter rail, uh some of the heavy passenger trains that you see. I call them heavy, but they share heavy corridors in uh, say Long Island Railroad, SEPTA, uh Metro North, MBTA, all what I would call the Metropolitan Railroads. Um we also play on the Northeast Corridor in what we would call our high-speed rail territory. But how are we viewed internationally and how can we get um more involved internationally? So I I have people, we've got listeners out there curious about that. Uh may have heard of the Watford Fellowship. I can tell you right now, I have not. I am not familiar with it at all. And so I'm hoping that by the end of this uh podcast, we will have a better understanding of what it is and how you can apply for the fellowship, what's the difference between a fellowship and a scholarship, the whole nine yards. So I got two great guests uh with me today. I have uh Thomas Cornet and I have Jim Michael, both of which have been in the rail industry for many, many years. Both are Arima members. I believe Jim is a member of C Committee 6, 11, and 24. I also believe Tom is a member of 16 and 11. And that's all I'm gonna say about them. I'm hoping they will probably do the majority of the talking on this subject. Um, and we're gonna go ahead and just kick that right off uh with Jim to go ahead and give us an introduction of how he got involved in the rail industry and where he is today and so on and so forth. Jim, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

Thank you, Walt, for uh inviting me to this event. Uh I've been involved in AREA and AREMA since 1976. Uh along the way, I served as a member of the board of directors of the old BB Association, which was rolled into AREMA in 1997. Uh I'm very uh happy to be elected as an honorary member of AREMA. And as you said, I'm a member of Committee Six Buildings and Support Facilities, as well as Fort 24 Education. Um I spent 23 years at Amtrak, and while there I administered international agreements with the Japan Railways, the French National Railways, uh, the German Railways, and uh lastly the Railways of Australia Committee, as well as working closely with uh various committees at UIC and uh the European uh Association of Equipment Manufacturers. After Amtrak, I spent 15 years with three different international engineering firms, working both domestically and internationally on uh rail projects. And most recently I've spent 12 years providing risk management and safety advisory services uh to U.S. and foreign railroads. Uh I can I support uh the FRA's Rail Safety Advisory Committee structure. I've been a member of two different working groups as well as uh participating in APT and Next Generation Equipment Committee. And this has given me uh an opportunity to really get involved internationally uh with many different railroads from around the world. I always like to say railroading around the world is the same everywhere. The only thing that changes is the gauge of the track and sometimes the uh voltage in the catenary. And with that, uh Tom, why don't you introduce yourself?

SPEAKER_04 6:29

So uh well, Jim, thank you for uh that introduction. And as for myself, I'm a consultant based in Alameda, California. And in my free time, I also work on railroad history. I'm currently working on projects uh relating to the Ann Arbor Railroad and the Central Railroad Company of New Jersey. Um I'm a I've been a member of Arima since 2005, and I'm a member of committees 11 and 16. For committee 16, I have uh worked, contributed to a number of sections of the manual, um, most notably the section on passenger motor power, which is um was a major addition to the manual. As to how I got started in the industry, um I grew up um in a railroad family. My grandfather uh was started with the New York Central in 1948, and he was a life member of the Roadmasters. And in visiting him in, you know, I grew up in LaGrange, Illinois, the home of the diesel locomotive, and in visiting him in Pennsylvania, all of my trips were on Amtrak, oftentimes to Broadway Limited, sometimes the Lakeshore Limited. So from that early experience, I got a picture of the railroad and how it functioned, and it just inspired with me so much curiosity about how everything fit together. And really what that curiosity led to is developing a systems perspective, thinking not just about engineering, but also the technology, the policy, the regulations, and how managers work in that really complicated environment to make things happen. And in the 80s and 90s, railroads were still kind of on the bubble. They were still recovering from the 1970s and all the bankruptcies that happened then. And I was inspired to try to find a way to make things better. For the longest time, I thought that would result in a career on a shortline railroad. I love short lines, they're still near and dear to my heart. I love the challenge of making something happen, very little resources. But what I found a niche was was in passenger. And when I was doing a master's degree at the University of Illinois, I did my master's thesis on trackage rights agreements for commuter rail and how they came about and how railroads and commuter agencies found ways to share control of operations but also to share costs and to share responsibility. And that led to a career in passenger routing, starting with Metro in Chicago, then a transit agency in Michigan, and finally here in California with Amtrak and later the Capitol Corridor Joint Powers Authority. And uh it was really just an incredible opportunity to present some research that I had been working on about uh vehicle-borne devices to help lightweight vehicles in using uh track circuits effectively and to really unlock the economics of passenger rail and the app and the potential of using diesel multiple units effectively. And so I submitted a proposal to the Wafford Committee to uh present this at the uh at the Wafford meeting in Madrid in 2017, and I was selected, and it was just an amazing opportunity, and just to see really the two takeaways that I think about and I often reflect on is seeing the different perspectives on railroading and what it means in different nations. And as Jim mentioned, you know, we're all railroaders across the world. You know, things are a little different. Um, but one of the things that is different is just the role that railroads have. And especially when you see, you know, at that meeting, there are a number of presentations from the Japanese railways where they're talking about how they manage stations that have more than a million passengers every day. Incredible facilities in incredible cities. Um just mind-boggling to think about the scope. One of the things I observed directly and um was really helped me to see it in context, was the role of unbundling in the Spanish railways. You know, we think of European railways as still having a as still being dominated by state uh enterprise, but over the past 20 years, there have been many mandates to introduce private competition in the European environment. And in this passion in the Spanish railways, there are so many contractors that are involved in terms of um servicing passenger equipment, in terms of servicing the in terms of managing the stations, managing the infrastructure, and there's a really tight-knit uh interrelationship of commercial relationships to provide these services to deliver a really high-quality and high-functioning uh rail service. And there's it's really what I think is the future of what the U.S. industry is going to look like over the next 20 years. So it's a great opportunity, and we're gonna talk, I think, more uh, Jim and Walt about how people can apply for this year's Watford Fellowship.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Absolutely, yeah. There's a lot to unpack there uh in that both of you both of your introductions, and and I'm not gonna lie, you know, I'm a little outside. My uh bellwether and what I know about uh in this industry. I mean, when I think of Arima and its predecessor AREA manuals, uh I know they've been used as an international standard of design for freight projects around the world, uh specifically when high axle loads or large MGT are a factor. Uh you know, and I'm it's my understanding ARE manuals have been used in Australia, South America, Africa, Asia, uh, other countries, I believe. So let's go back to uh to Jim here. How did that happen? I mean, you you you seem to be the the one in the know here, uh with more experience by far than I. How did how did you get involved in international railway activities?

SPEAKER_03 12:51

Well, it goes back to 1980, uh, Walt. Uh I was on a vacation trip to Australia, and I was visiting with some friends from the uh New South Wales Transportation Agency, and I found a magazine sitting in the lobby that explained about the National Committee on Railway Engineering having study tours on railway engineering. It's called Store, where they arrange for a long weekend or several week trips, depending on the location, uh, where all disciplines of primarily civil engineering, but also some rolling stock uh issues and signaling uh are looked at in the field. And uh I got a hold of the National Committee on Railway Engineering to find out in 1982 they were doing a five-week tour of Europe. So I became one of three Americans, uh, the other two also were AREMA members. Uh the three of us went on the Australian tour of Europe, six different countries over a five-week period. Uh what was really unique here is uh the Europeans viewed Australia as a market. So they rolled out all the bells and whistles to impress the visitors. And we three Americans just rode along for the ride, but the point is we are able to uh I was able to meet lots of folks in various countries that gave me an in-depth uh analysis and opportunity to discuss the issues. That later uh allowed me to participate in six other stores. Uh, been the New Zealand, the Pillborough of northern northwestern Australia, Queensland, as well as the urban passenger systems in Sydney and Melbourne. In 1997, the National Committee was uh converted into a technical society, much like ARIMA, where it was composed of individuals uh paying dues and participating in committee work and presenting papers at conferences. So these contacts enabled me to really get involved uh over my career when I was at Amtrak. Uh uh by default, I was the one that someone came to and said, Hey, can you write a paper for the boss? He's going to Europe and present a conferen at a conference. Uh ultimately I was able to uh handle the international agreements with the various European partners that had heavy concentrations in passenger service as we were trying to redevelop the Northeast Corridor. And nowadays, uh, you know, these contacts, I still use them and or still remain in contact with uh many of them uh for work with REMA now, as well as in the safety work that I've been doing for the past 12 years. And uh in particular, it was very helpful as we worked at re-equipping the Northeast Corridor with European-style train sets.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

So uh let's just uh before I go back to uh Tom here, which I'm Tom, I'm I'm I'm queuing you up here to talk a little bit about your experience with the fellowship. Uh Jim or or Tom, who would like to take this? I'd like to what is Watford? Before we start talking about getting a fellowship, what what is Watford? Is it a design committee or is it what what is it?

SPEAKER_03 16:14

Let me take that, Walt. Uh I just came back from the Watford uh once a year the Watford group gets together in a conference. I just came back from the latest conference in uh Singapore, uh where we had uh people from uh three different continents, uh including the 2022 uh Watford Fellow, uh Yai Feng Mao from the Honolulu Department of Transportation. The Watford is an um uh collect was described as a collection of friends who get together. It was started in 1963 by British Railways as an annual meeting amongst their various regions to share ideas, share design successes, uh quietly talk about what didn't work so it wasn't repeated. Uh and this was an annual event held at the Watford Conference Center of British Rail. In 1991, they opened up the conference to other European railways, and that coincided with the uh the breaking up of British Rail into many different pieces. So Watford is a group of folks that get together in the fall of each year. There's no dues, it's just friends getting together. Each meeting is arranged by the individual host company uh country. Uh the motto or the mission of Watford is to practice good design because it's good business. And it covers all areas of technical and uh operations, signaling, civil works, rolling stock, uh heavy emphasis on facilities, uh, since most of the European systems are oriented passenger-wise.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

Okay, that makes sense to me. So uh coming back to Thomas, how did you hear about this? I know you went to the uh conference in 2017, but uh what perked your uh interest? How did you find out about it, and and how did you know to submit a paper or or was it advertised on a website? Anything you could tell us.

SPEAKER_04 18:20

I saw the advertisement in RTNS, and it was something that uh when when I saw the R I did some research into Wafford and I started to discover their long history um both as an organization in terms of bringing together people who are really at the top of railway design from around the world for a conference. And previously they also granted an award called the Brunel Award, which recognized the achievements in railway design. Um and uh previously um Amtrak had won those awards a couple of times for locomotive designs and for locomotive paint schemes. And um, when I saw that, I figured, well, this is a really high-powered organization. I kind of was a little bit hesitant at first to whether or not I should apply for it, but I figured, well, I'm gonna give it a go because I felt that my research on shunting and vehicle-borne devices was something of interest, and it had it was a really an international story, and I thought it might appeal to an international audience. Um, and I'm really glad I took the time to fill out the application, and it's something that opened up that opportunity to attend the meeting, which is something that before then I wouldn't have thought about.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

And so, did you present a paper?

SPEAKER_04 19:48

Um I so uh the Watford fellows are asked to prepare a slide deck. So this was research in progress that I had that is in the process of becoming a technical paper. I presented it first, actually, Watford was the first place I presented it, and then I presented it the following year at the Joint Rail Conference that was held in Pittsburgh in 2018. So for Watford Fellows, what you're asked to prepare is a slide deck or a proposal for a slide deck on something that you have either worked on directly or that has been a part of your career that you've had some direct involvement with. And for myself, it's a matter of solving this problem of shunting effectiveness, which is something that continues to really frustrate a lot of DMU operations in North America, but it's something that has been solved pretty effectively in other places in the world. And um, so even though I wasn't the person doing the hands-on research on it in terms of doing experimental research, bringing together this uh international perspective and talking about best practices and what has been tried, what has worked, what didn't work, um made ultimately for a successful proposal and a successful presentation.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

Walt one one other very interesting point about Watford is it's geared towards early career railroaders who are AREMA committee members. Uh we've seen over the years that uh the chief engineer or his direct reports often get the uh assignment to go visit international facilities or go to international conferences. With Watford, we were trying to get younger folks uh who are in AREMA, this international exposure, to broaden their perspectives and prepare them for uh leadership roles later in their career. Uh Watford is used by the Japanese railways in this regard. They send almost twenty twenty to twenty-five young engineers and young professionals every year to Watford. A training uh initiative both to improve their English skills as well as to uh get knowledge of what other countries are doing. So, this is a unique thing about Watford. It's really geared towards early career railroaders.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

That is a very interesting and key piece that I think a lot of our listeners um are gonna like to hear. And when you say early stage, are we talking under 5, 10, 15 years? What what do you think?

SPEAKER_03 22:28

Historically, we've aimed at 10 years or less in the industry. It's not a not a chronological age of the individual, but how many years you've been in the industry. Uh, we may expand that a little higher for 2023 simply to broaden the applicant pool. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

And so if you're still listening and you are uh in the category, which I am not, unfortunately, but let's say you do have, say, less than 10 years of experience, you this uh is exciting to you. Um applying for the fellowship, you would do that via the AREMA website. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_03 23:05

The uh documentation will be on the, I believe, the uh ARIMA Educational Foundation website. Okay. The uh the nature of the award is approximately a twelve hundred dollar uh grant from ARIMA Educational Foundation that covers the registration fee of the conference, plus uh four to five nights a hotel, depending on the uh uh program of the uh conference and where it's held. And we'll have that information out probably in February uh for a decision in uh uh April, April to May timeframe. The 2023 conference is tentatively scheduled for October uh in England.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

Okay, all right. Well, the timing of this podcast could not be any better, really, because it sounds like you've got uh this we should uh be dropped here in December, so folks can take a couple months and uh start thinking about what they could put together, uh potentially even with our call for papers that hits uh our deadline, I believe it's mid-December. So perhaps uh if you've got a paper you've already put together an abstract for, uh this might be a great way to double dip. Is that what you did, Thomas?

SPEAKER_04 24:22

Did you also present at the I've presented at the REMA conference previously, but this was a uh entirely new um bit of research. So this was my first time bringing it out uh to the world.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

So you could you could do either or so all right, so that is some key key information there. Um if you want to uh well I stay on Watford because I do want to transition here to just a little bit about Australia, but uh while I'm on Watford, uh if individuals want to get a hold of you, Thomas, since you've got recent experience there, last five years or so, the best way to read me um is via email at public, which is publications at ThomasCornet.com.

SPEAKER_04 25:10

And for if people are trying to find the AREMA Foundation website on um on Watford, the best easiest way that I found to get there is to go into Google and type in Watford uh arema or Watford AREMA Foundation, and it should be the top search result.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

Perfect. Perfect, and we'll we'll recap that at the end. So uh, but if you are sitting here taking notes or you hit the pause button, um uh just so you also know, Thomas spells his last name C-O-R-N-I-L-L-I-E. Uh and I think either way, we're a we're a tight-knit group and Arima. We're here to help each other out. So don't be afraid uh to reach out and send a send a quick note if this is get getting you all excited. And speaking of excited, let's talk just to briefly here about uh Australia. The Australian relationship to me has been um a positive one. Uh at the same time, I'm not very familiar with it. So, Jim, could you talk maybe a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_03 26:12

Yes. Uh in 2018, uh Arima and the Railway Technical Society of Australasia uh initiated a cooperation agreement, which provides for exchanges of information, the opportunity to participate in these technical study tours, as well as reciprocal discounts, member discounts for conferences and webinars and other events sponsored by each organization. Uh in 2018, it's noted that this agreement fostered the fact that the New Zealand Railways won the Hay Award for their earthquake uh remediation. And at the 2019 conference, we had a very interesting presentation from ARTC, the Australia Rail Track Corporation, on their inland rail project, which is a uh a $2 billion uh new railway line between Melbourne and Brisbane, the bypass the Sydney urban area. Uh RTSA uh built a study tour for the USA in 2019, built around the ARIMA conference in Minneapolis, and had folks. We went to Pueblo, we visited several uh projects on the West Coast, including the ports of Long Beach and LA, uh California High Speed Rail Project, uh Denver RTD work. Uh and we met, had the opportunity to meet with some of the freight railroaders, uh, particularly with sidebar meetings while at the conference in Minneapolis. In 2020, ARIMA planned to have a tour to Australia. Uh we got it all pretty well put together, but then something called COVID got in the way, and so we canceled it. And we do have hopes now that uh maybe in 2024 we'll be able to put this together and uh have a delegation of AREMA members visiting Australia.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

Very cool. So if if folks want to get involved with that, how would they how would they do that? Let's say the study tour. Is that something that's gonna be announced, do you think, through through ARIMA headquarters then?

SPEAKER_03 28:22

Yes, it will. The AREMA tour would be announced through uh ARIMA headquarters. If people want to participate in RTSA events, particularly the webinars, uh, they can go to the RTSA website. It's www.rta.com.au and you can see the type of events uh that they are hosting. And uh you make yourself known as an AREMA member, and you should be able to get a member discount. If not, just contact AREMA headquarters and they'll arrange for uh the necessary uh relationship to be put in place. Excellent.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

Uh that that brings up kind of a just listening to all this, you know, what why why is it important for AREMA and AREMA's membership to be engaged in international activities? And I'll kick that to either one of you. I know Jim's been talking, you've been talking quite a bit.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

If you want Tom to take a stab at that one, yeah, I I I think it's good to I think it's important to see how other um how the problems that are in railroading, you know, railroading is a bundle of problems. You have technology, you have economics, uh, you have policy, and then you have management that tries to fit all those pieces together. And what you have in other countries and other contexts is the same bundle of problems, but you and bundle of issues, but you have different ways of solving the problem. And there's a lot that we can learn, I think, from here in terms of saying, okay, well, what if we try things differently? What if we have a different approach to investment? What if we have a different way of managing our employees or a different way of managing our contractors? What if we have what would things look like with a different relationship to state regulations? What would things look like in a different economic context or a different financial context where you have different priorities on investment and operating performance? And it provides a point of reflection to say how are we doing things in North America and to really ask, you know, one, could we do things better? But also to say, two, to help recognize where we have figured stuff out that is really hard and that we might not realize what a good job that we're doing here in North America, because we just don't think about comparing ourselves to others who might be doing it internationally. So having a point of reference, I think, is useful just in saying, in taking stock of where we're at and where we can go.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

So it's yeah, it's really just broadening of the information exchange, which really to me is the basis of the whole AREA and AREMA, uh, how AREA was founded, what AREMA is today, just taking it to that at an international level. Jim?

SPEAKER_03 31:24

Yes, uh, we have to consider the fact that many of our track component, rail, signal equipment, and roadway machine manufacturers are all foreign companies with U.S. subsidiaries. And a lot of the technology advances that we take for granted today are all the result of work done, particularly on high density, high traffic density lines in Europe and Asia. Uh, as the American network after staggers was consolidating, you know, a busy main line in 1975 had maybe 50 million gross tons. Uh, after staggers and mergers, you know, we have lines now that have 200, 250 million gross tons a year. Uh the valuable element or the most valuable resource is track time. And the Europeans, because of their traffic or passenger traffic, had to master track time for maintenance a long time ago. And we learned a lot. The the big machines, the track landing machines, the uh dynamic stabilizing. Uh all these types of technologies came out of uh European environment. But what's important for ARIMA members is to recognize that uh you have to understand the foreign operating environment in order to apply the technology here. You just can't take a machine that's used in Europe and drop it in the American environment without having an understanding of how it works, how it's supposed to function, and hence the need for better understanding. Uh so many of our supporters at AREMA are our industrial supporters, uh particularly a conference, are international suppliers. This is a global industry now, and uh ARIMA has to be at the forefront of taking advantage of it as well as contributing to it.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

Yeah, when you walk around around the uh the railway conference when we do the interchange, uh when AREMA comes together with the other major rail associations, which uh historically has happened every couple of years, I I know when you walk around that conference, it it gets it gets really, really, really fast that this is an international playground that we're working in. And with just purely the number of folks that come from from Japan and Europe, and many of the suppliers you're talking about are headquartered uh in Europe. Some of the big names we probably shouldn't be dropping those big names, but I think um we all know who I'm talking about. And uh and yeah, we're we're selling machines that are being built here to the globally, and uh we're purchasing them globally. So it makes a lot of sense to have that awareness, and uh it sounds like Arima again is a is is again a great place to uh uh get that awareness. And so maybe where I can wrap this one up, go ahead, Jim.

SPEAKER_03 34:17

One more point I'd make is that many of our committees, ARIMA committees, have uh uh folks from other railways around the world, uh as well as suppliers, to get material into the manual. Um what's particularly exciting is the fact that uh you know, we talk about passenger uh passenger environment, particularly high-speed passenger. Uh I like to say the high-speed track is high performance track. And when you consider dynamic loads of a 200 or 250 mile an hour uh passenger train, um what you quickly find out is dynamic loading there is probably the same or greater than a slow-moving freight train with 35-ton axle loads. So there's a common knowledge here that really needs to be shared across both passenger and freight.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Yeah, so the crossover is is might might be there that you don't even see. So, okay, well, let's just ask the question. Uh, how can Arima members become more involved internationally? And I'll I'll give that to either one of you.

SPEAKER_04 35:26

Uh I I think a good place to start is by uh looking at um international-oriented publications, uh such as the International Railway Journal, Railway Gazette, really cover uh developments from across the world. And they do so, you know, they're published on a monthly basis. They also cover a lot of North American news as well. Um second thing is to look for organizations that um have an online presence that are in other nations, but with the online presence, it means that even if you're in North America, you can start to uh you know uh partake in some of their um their meeting activities. Uh the permanent away institution in the United Kingdom it does excellent with that. They have technical presentations, sometimes two or three times a week, that are free to join. Uh the inner uh the IRSE, the signaling engineers, also have regular uh online presentations, and they also have a great uh uh North American chapter that uh collaborates a lot with the AREMA CNS Committee as well. Um and if you're you know, if depending on what your language abilities are, the world is truly there. You know, there's a lot of places to look, and it's just you're only bounded by your curiosity in terms of what's available out there and connections to make.

SPEAKER_03 37:00

Jim. Well, one one thing that I've found is that uh uh international activities uh you you learn a lot by talking and meeting with people, even if it's strictly by uh email correspondence. Email has opened the world. People will share documents as attachments or point you to links uh to get you information if you have a problem. Um one of my good friends in Australia is uh Phil Campbell, who is the director of standards at the Australia Rail Track Corporation, who is an AREMA member. And uh Phil relies upon AREMA documentation as he develops standards for the Australian Rail Network. And he and I have shared uh links and you know ideas and places, you know, sources of information back and forth. So the real answer is getting involved, looking for some of the international members on some of the committees, go to the AREMA directory if you have an interest in a particular country. Uh I've never been turned down when I asked for information. And in particular, if you're planning a vacation and you don't have a family member to get in the way, you want to do a you know a railroadman's holiday. Uh I've never had a case where somebody would not open their door and take you to visit a facility or a shop or operation center. They're anxious to explain what they're doing, they're proud of what they do, just as we would do the same thing as visitors came here.

SPEAKER_02 38:36

Oh, well, I don't think there is a better way to wrap this up. I just do want to say that as just a brief recap. If you're interested in the Watford Fellowship, keep your eyes uh peeled there. It looks like uh they're gonna hit uh applications are gonna hit roughly in February. Uh I've kind of provided you with Thomas's contact information. You can get it off the show notes as well. And uh go on to the ARIMA directory. You can find Jim Michael on there. That's M-I-C-H-E-L. Is that correct, Jim?

SPEAKER_03 39:10

That is correct. In fact, let me give you another email address. Uh that will not get you lost in all the clutter of the junk email. That's j-mf-a at outlook.com.

SPEAKER_02 39:23

There you go. You heard it here first. Uh, again, the uh the excitement uh for younger members is is there, the appetite is there. ARIMA is supporting it, they are providing funding uh for the winner to attend the uh the Watford delegation and conference in uh in England in the fall. And so with that, guys, thank you both.

SPEAKER_03 39:47

One of the things we didn't mention is any AREMA member can attend the conference. You have to pay the registration fee. It's not limited. We you know, it's not the case where we have just one person from AREMA going. Anybody who's an AREMA member can go to the conference. Just get a hold of Thomas, get on the mailing list, and we'll get you the invites to the conference when it comes out next year.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

And Thomas, you're the new chair of the Watford U.S. delegation. Is that right? Okay. So you are talking and you're listening to uh the right folks to get involved and uh learn more to get involved internationally. This has been really fun, guys. I appreciate it. This is again, we went off the uh structures uh world and other things that I know more about. Uh some might say I don't, but I feel like I might. Uh, but the international piece, I do not, and this is really good. So thank you both for being on here, and I hope you both have a very happy holiday season. And for our listeners out there, I look forward to uh to speaking to all of you again in 2023.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

Thank you for rolling with Arima on today's episode of Platform Chat. For further information about Arima, please visit arena.org or contact us at info at arema.org.