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Platform Chats
Platform Chats
The Importance of Committee Work and Leadership
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On this episode, Walt chats with Frank Miller, PE (AECOM), and Kevin Hicks, PE (TranSystems) two outgoing members of the Functional Group Board of Directors, the group that manages the technical committee operations for AREMA. Between them, they have over 60 years of experience in committee work and committee leadership. They’ll discuss the ability to drive the industry through committee membership and the importance of having a voice. They’ll also discuss the role of a Functional Group Vice President in AREMA, the importance of what they do, and their path to leadership. There are many opportunities within AREMA for those who are willing. They’ll also answer the question “Is Committee leadership relevant?” Spoiler: the answer is yes and never underestimating the value of a good library.
One of the main challenges that that we talk about on the membership is the the lower members uh from from the railroads. And you know, there's a good reason for that because they have fewer employees than they did before. Um that that is a challenge in in itself for us to uh recruit and maintain the the railroad membership, um, but also uh to transition uh into an organization where those that aren't directly employed by the railroads can represent the industry properly.
SPEAKER_00You may know the American Railway Engineering and Maintenance of Way Association, or AREMA, as the quote, keepers of the manual. You may know them as the quote people behind the largest annual railroad conference in North America. You may not know about AREMA at all. This podcast is designed, you know what I'm telling, to change your view of who AREMA is and how AREMA has changed the trajectory of many railway careers over its 100-plus year history. Welcome to Platform Chats with your host, Walt Lesser, where he takes a moment to discuss the impact AREMA has had on the very people who are proud to be called members. Are you ready to roll with AREMA?
SPEAKER_01ARE Corporation is a proud supporter of AREMA and platform chats. If you are looking to take your railway structure's career to the next level, or simply start it down the right track, please visit us at ARECorp.com. Please see our brand new job postings on our careers page or on our LinkedIn page.
SPEAKER_04Hello and welcome back to yet another episode of Platform Chats. I can't believe it. I was talking to my guests uh prior to starting the show today, and we're on number 17, folks. We are on 17 podcasts. I I just a little bit beside myself, I know. I bring this up every time. Arima headquarters likes to do seasons like we think they think we're some kind of Netflix special. I'm I guess maybe the engineer in me comes out and I just like sequential numbers. Uh so 17 is where we are. And uh we are, let's see, today's podcast, and then we got maybe one more. Our next episode, just to kind of pimp that, is we're gonna be talking to the president of Arima to discuss the upcoming conference. So we're we're two podcasts away from being all together in Denver at the end of August for the first time since we were all together in 2019. So uh kind of wild. I've had a chance in June to go to a few in-person arena committee meetings, and that was a breath of fresh air. I actually saw both of my guests at one in Washington, D.C. in June, and I just couldn't believe how long it had been since we'd been together. And so today, without further ado, today we're we've got a theme of of the uh the expats, I guess. So uh the thing that all three of us have in common is that all three of us are somewhat retiring from the board of directors after our three plus years. I know Frank spent more than that, uh, on the board. And I really wanted to take a minute and capture what uh both of these individuals learned during their time after being a chairman. So, you know, obviously a chairman or chairwoman is running a very specific committee. Uh, there's a very specific domain expertise to that committee. And the cool thing about jumping up to the board is then you're overseeing multiple committees and you're learning as to how those committees uh you know do business versus maybe how you've done business. Um, and then you can jump above that as well and see even a broader view. And so my hope is today we could talk a little bit about why they've had so importance in participating at that level, because again, we're all volunteers in this organization, and we do this because we love it. So today, uh representing the passenger and transit side of the house, we have Frank Miller, uh, who is currently a vice president and director of track design at AECOM, and representing the freight side of the house, uh equally, of course, we're an equal, equal opportunity folks at our Rima is Kevin Hicks. To many of you might have known him during his reign at Union Pacific, but he is currently the senior vice president and freight market sector leader at Trans Systems, so he's got a colored career. Both of these guys, it's like looking at a merit badge sash of an Eagle Scout. So uh, you know, I'm not gonna read the whole dang resume, but I am gonna let them each give a brief background as to how they got in the industry, what got them to where they are today. I think all of our listeners, the feedback I receive is they're interested to say, how in the world do you even get there? It's half the battle. Um and so since I introduced Frank first, I am gonna let Frank start. So, Frank, take it away.
SPEAKER_02So, how did I get into the industry? I graduated college in 1984, and actually, Walt, you'll appreciate this. I started as a structural engineer. Um and I was in the nuclear industry. And um sooner after moving out of Pennsylvania to New York, they shipped my body out to Illinois, and I worked at a nuclear power plant uh being constructed for about seven, eight months. Um I then um was afforded an opportunity to go to work for New York City Transit Authority, and I spent four years there, moving on to uh moving on to SEPTA in 1988. And while I was at SEPTA, um some of the people there recommended, hey, you want to you might want to think about becoming a part of AREMA. So I joined AREMA in 1988. Yes, I've been in AREMA for 34 years. Wow, life member. So um I'll hold off on the AREMA conversation, but that's how I got into the railroad industry and uh working for the two agencies, working being a project manager um actually on the design side of New York City Transit, and then more on the project manager side at SEPTA where I had consultants and contractors work on my projects that I oversaw. And from there I got into consulting, and I've been in consulting since 1992, ever since.
SPEAKER_04But all rail related.
SPEAKER_02All rail, all yes.
SPEAKER_04And mostly and mostly passenger transit, high-speed, electrified rail?
SPEAKER_02Yes, mostly passenger transit. Um I I have some freight, but I've I've worked on nine or ten light rail projects, um, some high-speed initiatives, but Amtrak, but uh some subway, a little bit of everything. Um, unfortunately, uh I have enough, as I tell people, I'm replaceable, but my library's not. I have information on all types of different modes of transit. So I've worked on all different aspects or assets: um, light rail, commuter rail, heavy rail, high-speed rail, and freight rail.
SPEAKER_04Perfect. Okay, fantastic. And you are talking to us from Pennsylvania, is that right?
SPEAKER_02Correct.
SPEAKER_04Yes, sir. All right, glad to have the Northeast represented. Let's move to the Midwest. Kevin, let's go.
SPEAKER_03All right. Well, I am not a nuclear engineer. Uh I was never anywhere smart enough to be uh a nuclear engineer, so that's why I became a civil engineer. But uh I started out, you know, actually uh I'm a second generation railroader. Um I kind of grew up uh in the industry uh on the labor side where my father was in the locomotive shops for the Frisco and the BN railroads. Uh so I kind of knew what railroads were, but didn't really have a uh uh a passion for them. Um but then I got guided into engineering school and you know got the civil engineering degree. And uh at the time that I graduated I had two choices, either go to to work for a DOT or to go to work for a railroad, and uh Union Pacific called uh, so I went. Um that was in '93. Um I spent 25 years at Union the Pacific doing uh just about everything there was to do in the engineering department there, from a management trainee to a uh construction supervisor, um uh manager track maintenance, uh director track maintenance, uh all those things, and then and ended up my career there uh in uh back in where my roots were in the design and construction side, uh retiring as or not retiring, but leaving there as the uh AVP of engineering design. And then had the opportunity to go over to the consulting world here just about three years ago, and uh have have been really enjoying that side of the fence. Um the tables have turned and now I'm the one selling and and uh delivering the the projects from the consultant side rather than uh driving it from from the railroad side. But uh it's it's uh been uh a great uh going on 30 years now um in the industry and in many many facets of the freight side of the industry.
SPEAKER_04And I don't mean to date either of you here and and and uh literally or figuratively, but what what year did you say you started, Frank? I heard 84?
SPEAKER_021984.
SPEAKER_04And and Kevin? Yeah, 93 for me. 93. Okay, so both of you started uh pre-merger and acquisition and all the things that we saw in the mid-90s, right, with Southern Pacific and Union Pacific and Burlington Northern and um uh Santa Fe.
SPEAKER_03Those were those were fun times.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I I have a feeling that when you say the word fun, you're being a little facetious, but that is fantastic uh history, and and I guess more so it plays into our discussion today around a Rima because uh the one thing that kind of survived through all that is probably your relationships with the people you met. Uh, you know, these railroads are are merging and and people are coming, people are going, um, the railroad's still got a role. So, you know, I heard Frank say he got pushed into a REM around 88. Is that right, Frank?
SPEAKER_02Yep, it was still AREA, yes.
SPEAKER_04It was still AREA, okay. And and then so you joined which committee and and why?
SPEAKER_02Uh I actually am charter members of committee 11 and 17.
SPEAKER_04Um what are those?
SPEAKER_02Because uh Commuter Rail Systems is Committee 11 and high-speed rail systems or commuter rail and inner city passenger trains is 11, high speed rail systems is 17, only because I was very involved with um at this time working at an agency moving people.
SPEAKER_04So absolutely. And and so you stayed with those ever since?
SPEAKER_02Have you I've yes, and now I'm on committee 24 uh as a third committee because I'm involved with uh rewriting and leading being a lead instructor on the IPRE seminar.
SPEAKER_04Okay, okay, and so 11 and 17 fall underneath what we would call the functional group uh Passenger and Transit. Okay. And for all of our listeners, passenger and transit, I you know, a lot of times people think of a REMA. I think a lot of people think immediately of what Kevin's doing, and they think of big heavy axle loads on really long trains out west. Uh they forget about what we have going on in the northeast and other other you know urban city centers. So what all falls under PT, passenger and transit? Which all what committees? Sorry.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so committee, I'll I'll go on numerical order. Committee 11 is commuter rail and intercity passenger, which is more the Amtrak, um, mostly the commuter rail systems. Committee 12 is rail transit, which is more your um agencies, light rail, heavy rail, um New York City transit, SEPTA, this the streetcar type stuff and embedded track, stuff like that. Committee 17, high speed rail. Well, we really don't have true high-speed rail in this country, but what we do have is mostly Amtrak. So the kit that committee is dominated by a lot of Amtrak uh participation. And committee 33 is electrical utilization, which is the traction power side of the house and substations and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_04Okay, perfect. So 12, I think of when I think of 12, I think of direct fixation type uh trains. Is that would that be correct?
SPEAKER_02A lot of embedded track, paved track, yes.
SPEAKER_04Okay, got it. And then if we flip uh flip over to our friend Kevin here, your background sounds like it was committee one and committee thirty, but I you know, in our discussions prior to starting the recording, I think you have an interesting story as to why you even joined committee 30. Can you shed some light on your arema history?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, um when one of the jobs that I had uh you know in the mid-uh 2000s, from 2008, 2009, I guess, was the director of standards of technology at Union Pacific, um, which dealt a lot with with our RD of all kinds of things. Um but in particular at that time we were having uh a lot of issues with concrete ties and how to maintain them and and and and deal with them. And there was a lot of research in the industry going on that that was being really driven um by committee 30 um and the concrete ties subcommittee and the testing subcommittee in committee 30. Uh so we joined that and and got involved with that. Um I guess number one to learn and then number two to uh with a more uh selfish interest to drive the industry uh maybe towards where uh we thought it should go in dealing with those kinds of issues. Um but then uh after that uh we we got that under control. Um I moved on to other positions as well, and and my uh my work got more uh more related to what committee one roadway and ballast does. So I joined that committee uh and got more active in it. So I remained active in 30 as well, but uh uh both of those related well to the work that I was doing. Um I just uh kind of moved around to whichever one made the most sense at the time. It gave that still stay involved in the other one.
SPEAKER_04And that also allowed you as an owner to have a voice as to what the guidelines were saying the owners shall do, right?
SPEAKER_03Yes, and that's important. Um, you know, not that any one owner needs to be able to drive the organization, but there needs to be a good cross-section of owners and uh researchers, uh technical folks, suppliers, uh, those things to to have a good cross-section of the industry and good understanding of different facets of the industry to push to push the uh uh the guidelines in the right direction.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think that's kind of the you know, to me that's the culminate, that's kind of how the or the genesis of ARIMA really is how the different railroads are doing things independently, and this gave them the a platform to stand on and discuss, hey, what are you doing over here? Hey, what are you doing? You know, obviously at the time, you know, many, many, many, many years ago, there was fierce competition between them, but at the end of the day, a bridge is a bridge, it's got to carry the load, so it's nice to know what details are working and which ones aren't. And and and let's like uh darn it, I just talked about bridges. See, they're gonna get in trouble for talking about the structures. They're not even here today. So, track, what else is in the functional group that is the track functional group?
SPEAKER_03Which committees the the two that I spoke about already are are in the the track functional group, um um concrete uh uh excuse me, uh Roadway and ballast number one and and ties number 30. We also have four and five, which are rail and track. So the rail committee obviously uh focuses on just the steel rail, um, but that's uh a bigger topic than it sounds. Everything from manufacturing, chemistry, composition, uh maintenance, grinding, uh testing, all of those things that go along uh with uh arguably the the most expensive asset uh uh on the in the engineering side of the property. Um and then track, uh the other committee goes a little bit bigger than uh wider than than uh just the rail, um, more of the um specialty track work, um, maintenance practices, uh uh things of that nature um uh that encompasses a broader scope of what the maintenance away uh folks at the railroads do.
SPEAKER_04Excellent. And so each of you, I'm assuming, spent roughly three years now, and and not all committees do this, but uh as a secretary, and then maybe three years as a vice chair, and then three years as a chair before you became a director. Is that correct? Or no? Did you jump around a little bit?
SPEAKER_03Not in my case. Um I did spend uh several years on committees, uh not formally uh in any of the leadership positions, um, but but was uh nominated to go straight into a director position and spent several years there uh before being elevated to the to the group VP. So I I say it's a shortcut. I didn't do the uh full nine-year path to get there, um, but uh was very involved in committee work before before joining the board though.
SPEAKER_04But you've been oh that's okay. Yeah, you were heavily involved in committee work, maybe not holding a committee, uh the traditional committee leadership path, which is what the one I took. And I Frank, is that what you did?
SPEAKER_02I had six years. Um I started as a secretary, and then the vice chair uh stepped down, so I did a dual role and then ascended to chairmanship, so I had the six out of nine-year route.
SPEAKER_04Okay, and then you both were directors, which is a three-year role. Is that right? Yes. Okay.
SPEAKER_02I had I had a yeah, I was a director. I assumed um someone's directorship, and then I was reappointed. So I think I was a director director for four or five years, and then uh then the functional VP for the last three.
SPEAKER_04Okay, and and same with you, Kevin. You were director for three. And then both of you were functional groups for three.
SPEAKER_02Correct.
unknownCorrect.
SPEAKER_04Okay, and the and and maybe you could just one of you, maybe Frank, uh what you could just talk a little bit about what the role of a functional group VP is. Can you talk a little bit about that?
SPEAKER_02Well, it's been challenging during COVID. I mean, not getting together, managing and um getting everybody aligned. But my job as I have seen it is basically to make sure that the functional groups uh progress their development of the manual. We know there's a big push on manual health within AREMA and getting stuff to ballot, um, being serving as a sounding board for the current leadership. How do we get things to ballot? I since I've been around AREMA a long time, I know a lot of the people at HQ and I help them put them in contact with people for the right forms and the right processes. Um I'm still involved at the committee level as uh past chairman. I'm still involved with the manual, making sure what's up to date, what's not up to date for manual health. Um and then the big the big role is um leading um for like as we just did past um June, the board meetings and getting getting the four functional groups together on what um what topics we want to see presented in the the upcoming conferences, hot topics for papers, any issue, any any issues we have at the committee level with leadership, succession planning, um certain frustrations with getting things done, how we can fast track that, how we can use um the new technology that Arima has rolled out on the website to it to their advantage to make their job easier. So back when I was a chair, I mean we kept everything on spreadsheets. You know, what who voted, who went to meetings, and who was not active. Things are a little easier, supposed to be easier now. We've heard some of the frustrations working that out with HQ. But um my job is more is uh is kind of a uh a director to keep everybody uh uh uh focused on the job at hand, where REMA is today, and where we want to go in the f uh in the future. So I mean that's the short thing. I mean I have other things I can mention about the other roles, but as the functional group VP, that's been my focus.
SPEAKER_04Sure.
SPEAKER_03Kevin, anything you want to add to that? Um just a another thing that takes a significant amount of time, but is is well worth it, is that that we get to review and help select the material for the conference. Um, you know, review the abstracts, give guidelines, or give assistance in reviewing and make suggestions, and we get to learn uh a lot about uh uh what different things uh are are being submitted for the conference and help shape those into the material that everyone gets to to gets to see here in in another what forty forty-five days. Um so it takes a lot of time to do that, but it's uh very rewarding to be able to shepherd everyone through that. And then like Frank said, I think the other big thing is just being a uh a continuous experienced voice to know to help new committee members, uh to new committee leadership know what to do in any given situation, who to talk to at HQ or whatever. So they don't have to learn everything by themselves. Hopefully we've seen some of these situations before and and can can uh help them save some time and get some things done faster.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's a good I don't want to forget the excuse you don't want to forget the conference papers either. So I'm gonna I've got a little load loaded question here for for each of you. And uh I want Frank uh maybe you could start if you want. But I I look here and I I think to myself, if I'm a younger individual, let's say I'm 26, 27, and I look at being involved in a REMA, and then I say, you know, I really like to be, I'd like to do what those guys are doing someday. That'd be great. Um and let's say you take the traditional path that I took, which was nine years of committee work, then you got the director of 12, right? 9, 10, 11, 12, and then and then potentially, you know, we're at like 15 years of of leadership experience. And that's that's both, you know, just to get asked or to be nominated, I think to be in a leadership position on a committee takes many years of potential subcommittee work and potential So it's this long, long path that I I could see potentially even being a deterrent. And so my my loaded question here is do you guys feel that a REMA uh participation and leadership participation is is still relevant?
SPEAKER_02Okay, yeah. So, you know, I I joined a REMA in 88. I think I got started involved with committees in 91, 94. So I put on, I mean, and I sat there as a young guy. I joined a REMA when I was 26. So not to do the math here, but and I sat at these committees and I would go, and I was one of the younger guys in the room with a lot of older established veterans, and and and you you question, do I belong here? And you you sit by and you listen and observe and you start to make uh build relationships and you start to get involved, and you know, someone taps you on the shoulder, says, Hey, hey, have you ever think about authoring a section of the manual? I'm not qualified. Well, you find out you are, and then you do it, and then you do it again, and you do it again, and next thing you know, in 2007, you know, so I've been in leadership for 15 years. That's that's when I was tapped and asked to become a secretary. So I put in 13, 14 years at committee level doing work, if and finally being asked to be you know to be become part of leadership 13, 14 years later, and I'm you know been doing that ever since. So, yeah, it's worth it because that opened so many doors, and I've met so many other people. Um, well, I you and I we met worked together briefly at the same company, uh, you know, so and I've met a lot of people on the freight side that I wouldn't have had the opportunity to meet because I'm a passenger transit. I mean, I deal mainly with Amtrak and the SEPTAs and the New Jersey transits, and I've worked other in other markets in Florida and whatever in Boston, but it's mostly on the passenger side. But you know, I I go to these conferences and I'm sitting with uh uh freight guys who I never even would have been able to you know meet and and learn from and build relationships and go to dinners with them and and meet their wives and just learn. And it's yeah, I would if you were to ask me uh 30 how many eight years later I'm in this industry, was it worth it? Absolutely. I don't look back at all. I don't look back at all. It's it's been one of the greatest uh highlights in this, like as you said, to be asked by your peers to assume a position of leadership, that's a great honor.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, I I agree, and it's it's almost as if you can't really look at the length of the path to get it. It's really the journey, right? Um, and to me, you know, it flew by for me. Uh I never thought I would be doing what I'm doing today. And so I don't I don't view it as a deterrent. I definitely feel that the participation is relevant. Kevin, I don't want to steal any thunder from you.
SPEAKER_03So why don't you I think you were going to you were going towards this. I mean, things change as as you move through your your career in this industry. Um, you know, when I first joined Arima, I was a young manager, didn't know much of anything, and you know, I got to be I got to talk to people at my railroad and learn from them, um, but they didn't know everything either. There were other people in the industry um that I could learn from. I mean, like one of the people that I think taught me the most about specialty track work happened to be a BNSF guy that uh I still converse with. Um he's been out of a REMA for 10 years now, but I still converse with him. Uh I learned a lot as a young manager from from folks like that. But then as your career progresses and the industry lends itself to this, you know, once we get into it and get it in our blood, it we don't get out generally. We we stick with it, you transition, and you become the one uh helping to guide others to write the manual content to uh to answer questions across the industry. And then, you know, you know, Frank and I, uh, and well, you too, uh we're now in a position where I think we're trying to bring the younger managers into the industry, into a REMA to replace where we were 25 years ago. Um, and that's our function. And and it, yes, Walt, back to your original question, is it a long timeline? Yes, it is, but it's not the same thing. You evolve throughout that, your positions change throughout that, your companies change throughout that, so uh it it stays fresh, you know, at least it did to me as you move along through that long timeline.
SPEAKER_04I yeah, that's evolve is a great uh word. Do you think, you know, I I heard you mention that the three of us are in kind of a position to recruit and replace us in the industry. Both of you have been around this industry for longer than I have. Do you believe it's harder to do that today than it was for your seniors, quote unquote, uh to do that with you, let's say in the mid-90s?
SPEAKER_03I'll I'll start off there. Um, I think that um just by volume, it is a little bit more difficult. There aren't as many people in the industry as there were 30 years ago. Um so just by that it makes it a little bit more difficult. People are busier, um, uh there's just not as many people to choose from, that sort of thing. Um but the flip side of that is that I think uh there are a lot of quality people in the industry now that makes it a little bit easier to bring some of them in and get them going quick more quickly in the industry. Not to say that the the people that that I that hired on with were were not smart or anything, but uh the younger generation is able to pick up on things, I think, uh more quickly than, or they're expected to pick up on things more quickly than than uh in the last generation. So that makes it a little bit easier uh from that perspective.
SPEAKER_02If you don't mind, well that's kind of a loaded question for me, because I've spent the last five cheers, uh five years as the Rima membership chairmanship, the head of the and I've seen and you guys have heard me report at the con at the board meetings how membership has changed and how we've declined. A lot of that's COVID, but a lot of it is the younger generations, um they have a lot of other options to choose from with technology and computers, and but once you get once we get people involved, their ascension is a lot quicker than I guess what Kevin and I went through. There's so much more opportunity for those that are willing to jump in and do it. There's plenty of opportunity, it's just a matter of rolling up your sleeves and someone just like I was tapped on the shoulder in 2007 and right, and um we've we've really focused on the succession planning, but within the industry, and a lot of it is systemic from the freights just not having as many people as Kevin, they're not being involved, and I've seen just because of the metrics I report on, how now we're a consultant-dominated industry, and that has its own challenges and problems for REMA going forward, and the class ones and the freights and the agencies are now the second highest number of uh people within AREMA. So we've seen the numbers decline. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing, but we do have some work to um, I guess being back at conference is going to help, getting the next gen and getting some of these college seniors there and people that are at the um the in the uh I guess at the universities that we have, the 23, 24 universities that have arema chapters, getting them there, getting them in a room, getting them a chance to kind of like you know, it's a seeing is believing, touching, feeling, tasting. They see these people, they get conversations, they see what it's about, encourage them to go to the committee meetings. You don't have to be a committee member. Go in there, sit, listen, observe, and then you say, hey, that's not so bad. Or I met this guy, and he was a he was a really welcoming and opening, and I think I can do this, and I think that's where it can start to kind of we can kind of rebuild arena and where we're going in the future.
SPEAKER_04That is a great transition and kind of where I want to close this thing out. Uh I I was in the meeting, I did I did hear the numbers, I did hear uh what you reported from a membership-based perspective. Um did Kevin. So, do you guys think we are in a rebuilding phase uh in the next say five to ten years? As you guys exit, what's the challenges for the next uh group of leadership to come in to the to the association? I liked the term rebuild. I mean, I liked, but I mean we're we've got an opportunity, right? So we have I don't mean to throw these really hard questions at you guys. Um like we do you you made a big it's been two years since we've had a conference.
SPEAKER_02That'll give us some momentum back in our favor. I think that'll that's a good start.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and I think go ahead, Kevin. One of the main challenges that that we talk about on the membership is the the lower members uh from from the railroads, and you know there's a good reason for that because they have fewer employees than they did before. Um that that is a challenge in itself for us to uh recruit and maintain the the railroad membership, um, but also uh to transition uh into an organization where those that aren't directly employed by the railroads can represent the industry properly. Um that that's something that us uh uh that we and uh the the next uh group of leaders that that follow us will will really need to to work on is replacing that railroad leadership um that is the quality of leadership isn't isn't leaving the railroads, it's just the the the volume of leadership, there's just not as many of them anymore.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's that transition that that Frank mentioned where we you know originally the I believe AREA and the organization way back in the day was probably 100% uh railroad is my guess, uh or or darn near. And uh it's slowly trickled to 70, 30, 60, 40, 50, 50, and now all of a sudden it's 2022, and uh we're seeing it's flopped, right? And so, and I don't think it's a bad thing. I mean, I think everyone's in this to work together. We're we're um we're also in a different position, right? We're not doing a bunch of green build, we're doing a lot of maintenance, we're doing a lot of rebuild work.
SPEAKER_02Uh a lot of line extensions, retrofits, yeah, stay good together.
SPEAKER_04A lot of that type of work, yeah. And uh putting you on the spot, Frank, I know you're uh a little bit you are involved with apt. Uh is that right?
SPEAKER_02Yes, I am. Not to the extent that that we are, that I am a remote, but I am involved, yes.
SPEAKER_04Okay. So I mean, compare and contrast, would you say that they're going through similar uh issues as far as just professional organizations in in this time frame?
SPEAKER_02I mean APTA is is so big, but it's it's it's dominated by the by the agencies or uh uh and even at the consultant level, it's a cons you know, I'm just one small person. I mean it kind of insignificant. Um I'm involved at the committee level, but everything is more the glitz, more at the at the the executives at the agencies, they kind of dominate things. They're not the technical organization that Arima is.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I'm in, you know, one of my roles as PT involved in leadership is I was involved in generating that memorandum of understanding between APTA and ARIMA. So AREMA has always been the technical leader. You know, APTA's got standards, but where the where the where the where the buck stops. I mean, AREMA sets the tone, all the guidelines and practices that are contained in the four volumes. APTA has its place um as far as um you know with big programs and and how it's involved with funding at the political level and where Washington's going with things, and they do have technical committees. Their conferences are a little more glitzy than AREMA, and that's okay. I I you know but you know, and Kevin could probably mention this, being on the consultant side, our overhead dollars are limited to where we can go and attend. And I'm always going to AREMA first. You know, I've been to a few aptic conferences, especially the rail conferences, and they're fun. It's just not this, you know, and I'm this is not a knock, but it's just not the same as a REMA because I grew up in AREMA, and that's that's who I know. And I'm dealing with technical, the technical people, the engineers, not a guy who's in operations or you know, stuff like that. So that's where I gravitate to. But they do have challenges, but they're it's just a different membership. They've got so many different committees and and and and subcommittees. It it's it's just a whole different makeup. And you know, the consultants, we pay for that, not us individually as people. You know, it's okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_04So maybe it wasn't a good, maybe it wasn't a good comparison. So let me let me think uh close this out.
SPEAKER_03Uh on the other in other organizations, not necessarily ones just tied to the rail industry, but but other ones that I'm involved with as a consultant, uh, the the numbers um for most of them may be off a little bit uh in total uh in total uh membership. Um I guess but what I what I do see in in the successful uh organizations is that they have a membership that basically yearns for uh involvement, for relationship building, for for teamwork, for collaboration. And these types of organizations are wonderful places for for people, especially in a world uh that has gone more digital, uh, to give them an outlet to get involved personally with people, uh using their their knowledge as a springboard, but but giving them an opportunity to get something they yearn for, which is a personal interaction with other with other people.
SPEAKER_02So, Walt, if I could jump in, the one positive that I did take from Arima, and this got you and me in trouble, was not ARIMA from APTA, was I said, remember I mentioned tell your story, and that's how we that was the genesis of our engagement committee and leading to now you being the chair of this podcast. How can we tell our story as ARIMA? Because that's one thing APTA does very well. They tell their story, they tell they they they they they celebrate their successes and projects and and membership, and that's kind of how you and I got involved with this engagement committee and now this, because that was the the one tagline that we took away. And so that's one thing they do do well. That we need to, I think Riemann needs to do a better job of telling our story.
SPEAKER_04Do they have a podcast?
SPEAKER_02Not that I'm aware of.
SPEAKER_04And we're doing that better.
SPEAKER_02Yes, we are.
SPEAKER_04Let's just be honest about that. Okay, scoreboard is the scoreboard, Frank. So uh agreed. I'm gonna close this out with one last question. So we we started with your careers, we talked about both of you. We've obviously had fantastic leadership roles. You both obviously are uh, you know, you carry the carry the banner, carry the flag for a REMA. So if you were to uh if an employee of yours came up to you today, this afternoon and said, Hey, I just got offered this uh committee leadership role. I'm worried about the time commitment, the length, etc. Uh, but I I have an opportunity to be the secretary of you know XYZ committee. What would you tell that person and why?
SPEAKER_03I guess I would start off by saying, number one, do it. Um but go in with eyes wide open that it is uh uh a as we've already talked about, a a long uh a long path. Um but and and it will take a lot of your time. Um so you need to be prepared for that going in that uh that it's a lot of work. Uh but what you will find is that it is worth every minute that you put into it, the value that you return from it, both from the technical knowledge that you gain, and probably more importantly, from the leadership skills and relationships that you gain uh from the time that you commit to the to the committee and to the organization.
SPEAKER_02So I can't top that response because he did such an eloquent job of saying the same thing, but I would say this the rewards, the rewards way outnumber the risk. I mean, I know when they uh they said, you know, it's gonna take some time, yeah, and you put a little extra time in at nights and weekends, but as consultants we do that anyway. So um, but uh the rewards have far, far, far outweighed the the commitment levels I had to put in. I I can't put I can't put a dollar value on that. You just can't.
SPEAKER_04Agreed. Okay, fantastic. I actually had to look up when I joined Dream and it looks like I joined in 04. So you guys have got me both, both of you have me smoked. But at the same time, you're also passing the baton a little bit, and I do think that there are I wouldn't say headwinds ahead, but there's there's different issues. But you know what? There were different issues, I'm sure, back in 84 and 93, and now 2022. So it's it's all very similar. Well, I want to thank both of you. You guys have been great guests. Uh this was a super easy podcast to put together. Both of you are just well-spoken and very much uh great representatives of what Arima is all about. So thank you both. And I will see, I assume I will see both of you in Denver.
SPEAKER_02See you on your home turf.
SPEAKER_04On my home turf. That is correct. Excellent. Okay, guys, thank you.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for rolling with Arima on today's episode of Platform Chats. For further information about Arima, please visit arema.org or contact us at info at arema.org.
