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Platform Chats
Platform Chats
2023 Hay Award Winners Discuss Merchants Bridge
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In this episode, Walt chats with the winners of the 2023 Dr. William W. Hay Award about their project “Merchants Bridge Main Span Trusses & East Approach Replacement.” Crossing the Mississippi River and originally built in 1890 by attorney turned engineer George Morisson, the Merchants Bridge is the second oldest bridge in St. Louis and has exceeded its design life. This innovative project was undertaken to bring it up to today’s design standards. Eric Fields (Terminal Railroad Association of St. Louis), Nick Staroski (TranSystems), and Kevin Eisenbeis (Burns and McDonnell) share stories about the history of this amazing bridge, how the project was conceived, and what it means in the industry to be recognized with a Hay award.
Well, I I was gonna say I've been attending these arena technical conferences for many, many years. And you know, every year we'd see that Hay Award uh being given out, and it was really nice to be a part of it, you know, um after having seen that award given out so many times, and it I think it means a lot to the industry. It certainly means a lot to our team as we went after that. So I was I was very uh very happy to see that that project was selected.
SPEAKER_00You may know the American Railway Engineering and Maintenance of Way Association, or AREMA, as the quote, keepers of the manuals. You may know them as the quote people behind the largest annual railroad conference in North America. Heck, you may not know about AREMA at all. This podcast is designed, no pun intended, to change your view of who AREMA is and how AREMA has changed the trajectory of many railway careers over its 100-plus year history. Welcome to Platform Chats with your host, Walt Lesser, where he takes a moment to discuss the impacts AREMA has had on the very people who are proud to be called members. Are you ready to roll with AREMA?
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SPEAKER_02Hey everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Platform Chats. It has been a minute since our last episode, and I feel like I have introduced every episode of 2023 that way. It has been a very weird year in my life, and so I do apologize for the lack of cadence in releasing these episodes. I uh was much better about that in 2022. Um here's to a good 2024, I guess. Uh this time, my excuse, I'm sure you want to hear it. Uh we had um, well, pretty much set up to record this particular episode in the last week or so, and we had a little incident uh south of where I live uh over I-25, where we dropped a coal train. Uh you might have seen that on the news, and I was lucky enough to go down and help them with the reopening of the interstate and the cleanup uh of the coal train. So um if any of you have been involved in derailments, you know that when the phone rings, you just leave, and then you don't really know when you're coming home. Uh you come home when the job is done. So I was gone for a good three or four days uh and had to reschedule this to this week. Um but yeah, it's October already. Before that, we had the Arima show. I know many of you were there. I saw many listeners, that was pretty cool for you to come up and say hello. I really appreciate that. Uh I thought it was a great show out there in Indianapolis, it's a great location. Um overall, uh it seemed like we had great weather, everything just seemed to kind of go well. So hope everyone that was out there had a good time. Um and as I was out there, I was uh actually before we went out there, I was starting to think about the fact that, you know, we we celebrate uh the Hay Award um in Arima as one of the most well, I'd say it's one of the largest honors uh for a project to receive um in our industry. Uh it represents a uh a professor. Uh we actually talked about in a previous episode, we actually spoke uh with the uh folks that are on the I guess it'd be the selection committee that have been involved with it for years on how they select a Hay Award uh winner. It is a very uh competitive uh award to win. Um this goes back to the Professor Hay, who was at the Illinois Champaign, um, but it has it has lived on in his legacy for many, many years. And oftentimes uh they will have descendants his descendants will still show up uh at the show and assist with the presentation of the award. So, you know, it's it's pretty cool. I think that you'll hear from uh uh the three guests I have on today. Uh they'll probably tell you how cool they think it is because I know um only certain projects uh as you go through your career do you even think, huh, this this might be a good one to uh to submit. And that's usually something that's like once in a honestly, I'm not making it up. It's probably once in a lifetime. I think all these uh all these folks have you'll hear from them, they have significant railroad experience. Um they have been around the been around the block long enough to know that yeah, this is a big deal, and I think they're all honored to have won the award. So with that, uh appreciate you listening to the long intro. Um I guess you're not as annoyed as you could be since I've hardly done any many hardly done any episodes this year, but moving right along, we have the owner of the Merchants Bridge, the representing the ownership team of the Merchants Bridge, uh Mr. Eric Fields, is joining me today. And then he has two of his partner uh consulting firms that were heavily involved in the design, and I'm sure they worked right through the construction of uh the replacement of the Merchants Bridge near St. Louis. I don't want to say any more about the project, um, but I'll introduce these three uh gentlemen, like I said, Mr. Eric Fields, Mr. Kevin Eisenweiss, Mr. Nick Starovsky. So we'll start with Eric and we'll have Eric give a brief introduction, kind of how he got into the world of even being the guy um working for the Terminal Railroad Association in St. Louis, uh, and how he even found himself in the seat he is in today. Uh, and then we'll move on from there. So, Eric, if you could give a brief introduction, that would be great.
SPEAKER_04Oh, thanks for having us on. Uh, appreciate the uh invite. Um yeah, so I I went to the University of Illinois where you know Dr. Hay uh did his work, his great work over the years, and recently uh studied under Dr. Barkin uh to get to fill some gaps in my railroad uh education, and it they've got a great program there, and it's great to pass along that tradition uh to the students uh as we go down. But uh I went to University of Illinois uh out of high school and worked in the highway industry for a bit uh up in Chicago and then uh made my way over into uh to bridges, mostly bridge rehabilitations, uh Mississippi River Bridge Rehabilitations uh in St. Louis working for a couple different uh entities, one the city of St. Louis, which owned the Eads Bridge, the oldest river bridge in the country over the Mississippi River. And then uh went and worked for transit uh the light rail uh system here in St. Louis, where uh also worked on the East Bridge. It's a dual purpose bridge. Uh but that opened the door, having that background opened the door uh for a railroad opportunity at Terminal Railroad, who had two Mississippi River bridges, uh uh the MacArthur and the Merchants Bridges, um, both built uh near the turn of the century into the 1900s. Uh Merchants was 1890, MacArthur uh finished up in around 1913. Um but you know, bringing that experience into this role, uh it helped it certainly helped having uh background in structural engineering, uh grant management. Uh work did a lot of grant uh had a lot of grant experience from uh the transit side, and and as uh the federal railroad administration uh dipped its toe into the grant world in uh 2008 and on, uh brought that brought that skill set over and and you know to help help finance these large projects.
SPEAKER_02And so right now you are the chief engineer for the terminal railroad in St. Louis. Okay. Yes. I have so many questions when you were talking there, uh, but out of courtesy to the other guests, I'm gonna come back to you, Eric. Thank you. Uh Kevin, I'm just going around the room here based on how I see you on my screen. Uh if you could do a brief introduction as well. You've been around this industry for as long as I can remember.
SPEAKER_03Sure, I'd be happy to. Uh so I started in uh 1980 with a small firm, Harrington and Cordlew. That was a bridge specialty firm in Kansas City, Missouri. Did all types of bridges. I think my first rail project was in 1980, doing a double mainline across Nebraska for the BNSF. And that has all been triple mainline now. That was some time back. Uh I did, I was a University of Missouri uh Rolla, now Missouri ST grad for undergraduate, and I got a master's degree from the University of Missouri. So a lot of Missouri background uh where we are, and I'm stationed in Kansas City with currently with Burns and McDonald. So I worked my way through Harrington and Cordelieu. I was the senior principal of that firm at the time that we were acquired by Burns and McDonald, and that was 13 years ago. And uh that was uh a lot of fun. I had a three-year commitment at Burns and McDonald, and I've been there 13 years, so it's been nothing but fun working on a lot of bridges, and that's kind of been my specialty. I'm currently the national bridge practice leader for Burns and McDonald. And we do both rail and highway bridge, but uh definitely like those rail structures and always had a fascination for trusses, so it was fun to work on this merchant's bridge.
SPEAKER_02And you were uh involved in AREMA for a long time too. Were you chair of eight?
SPEAKER_03So, yes, I was chair of eight. I started in AREMA in I think it was 1993. Uh worked through Committee Eight, uh, was the chairman of that committee for for the three-year term that they have for chair. And have enjoyed that, still still actively involved in committee eight and attend those meetings every chance I get.
SPEAKER_02Well, it's great to have you on the show. It's always an honor to have someone on the show that's been with the, in essence, the same firm for uh for over 40 years and and and still enjoying it today. That's uh in 2023, you don't hear that all the time. So, Kevin, thanks for joining us and uh look forward to hearing what you have to say. Uh Nick, how about you? You're with Trans Systems, correct?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's right. Thanks. Well um so a little bit about my background. I I went to school at the University of Nebraska in Lincoln. I got my undergrad and graduate degree there. Um I started with Olsen Associates in Lincoln in 2006. Uh worked there for a couple years in Lincoln, then moved down to Kansas City. And that's that's really kind of where my real career, I guess, took off. Um at that point, uh Ken Jennison was a former BNSF employee, uh assistant uh director of structures there. He came over to Olson, so I really kind of got my start under him, and he really introduced me and pushed me into uh joining an ARIMA committee, committee eight. So then yeah, in 2009 I joined uh committee eight, and then 2010 I actually moved over to Trans Systems. So um, and then had a had a lot of great opportunities here to work on some some complex projects and trust projects, and then and then obviously this great project came along. So but uh and then just about a year ago I was able to join get on committee 15. So so yeah, Remo's been the committee work has been a lot of fun and and very interesting and a great way to learn too about uh how things come to be in the code. So I that's what I like about it.
SPEAKER_02Well, it's good to have some structures uh representation on the podcast. Uh I am slightly biased uh as some may say, and maybe that's probably why I'm so excited about this particular hay ward. Um Nick, I have to ask uh and Kevin, so did you guys meet on committee eight or or since you're both I know you're both Kansas City based, but have you worked together in the past or doing committee work? This is a Rema plug.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's it's so it's been a few years now, but yeah, it's probably 2009, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_03I can also add to that, uh Walt uh we have teamed with Trans Systems over the years many times. We've done several Missouri River bridges uh with trans systems, and I can think back several of those projects. We were a sub to Trans Systems, but we're a major sub with involvement, you know, with the main spans or some of the river-related foundation work. And that's been very successful over the years, so it just made a lot of sense to uh to consider teaming again on this project.
SPEAKER_02Excellent. And I think that is could not have been a better transition if I scripted it myself. So let's go back to Eric. Um Eric, let's talk a little bit about the Merchants Bridge and I I'm I my questions are obviously there's gonna be some interesting technical stuff here, but let's go to that 40,000 foot level for our viewers of of of the history of it and how you determined that it needed to be replaced or rehabilitated, and how in the world did you go out and get the funding for such a major project? That that stuff to me uh oftentimes gets left out.
SPEAKER_04Well, um the Merchant's Bridge, uh the demand for the Merchants Bridge was uh was building as railroads you know traverse the to the Western Front, um, mostly in you know uh crossings and up between uh Chicago uh was uh a huge focal point of of the railroad expansion west, but St. Louis had also become a huge uh node in the in the in the transportation network. So there was a huge demand for a river crossing because you could get shipments that would take two days to get from New York to East St. Louis, and it would take another four days to get from East St. Louis to St. Louis due to the uh congestion. Um so there was a there was a huge demand for uh that rail node. The Eage Bridge was constructed in 1874, but there was not enough to uh throttle the demand. Um, so the merchant's bridge was 1890, and it's a fascinating short story. Um they built that bridge in 14 months. Uh they got a double track river bridge constructed in 14 months. Uh the engineer was a guy named George Morrison, who was a Harvard lawyer who was also a mathematician. Uh he went out to Kansas City and and uh worked under an engineer, and he he really brought mathematics and and calculations instead of rules of thumb to uh the bridge uh design, uh really brought that forward. He was the first first guy, Merchant's Bridge was one of the first projects, if not the first project that had specifications created um uh for construction quality assurance. Um so George Morrison created that bridge in 1890. You know, he he couldn't see he he built a bridge that lasted till uh you know we replaced it in in 202s when we would put it in service, but it was uh you know how could you foresee the uh the loads um that that are today's uh rail loads? But this bridge accommodated the 800,000 pound uh steam engine locomotives that cross that bridge. But um you know today's today's rolling stock is needs to accommodate 315,000 pounds in in a repetitive fashion to you know to accommodate fatigue considerations and so on. But um that that bridge is fascinating uh how it was constructed, and it had you know iron leading edges into the caissons with timber caissons, and those still sit in the river today. And uh, you know, these guys, uh Kevin and Nick came up with a very innovative uh foundation design to preserve the existing bridge in place uh for those foundations and make them work together with an integrated system. Um I have to interject, uh Eric.
SPEAKER_02You you you dropped George Morrison, and if anyone is listening, um that's like royalty for the bridge uh engineering community. If I remember right, I I think he was involved with Hannibal in Kansas City, and I'm almost positive he was involved with the Memphis Bridge that still stands today.
SPEAKER_04Still standing.
SPEAKER_02So thank you for that's actually some pretty cool history that you you brought up. So thank you.
SPEAKER_04Uh so the reason we made the decision to replace the bridge is due to uh the freight demand uh of the country going forward. Um it is increasing, um, you know, expecting 25% increases in volume over the next 30 years over uh I think 2021 volumes. Um, but we need it uh to accommodate uh current rolling stock. You've got to have these Mississippi River bridges accommodate the 315,000 pound uh rolling stock and you know the 420,000 pound locomotives. Um they aren't as heavy as the steam engines, but uh the the rolling stock is is much heavier than than what we were carrying back in the day. The trains are longer. Uh the limiting factor of the original truss was the top cords. Um I think the it rated out at less than Cooper E50, and the new bridge is gonna be Cooper E80, uh double track. So capacity uh was was the uh and and load uh load capacity was the uh was the big trigger for replacing the bridge. Um how did we finance it? Uh that was very challenging. Uh as much confidence as I had in the engineering community to to build this bridge and do it successfully. Um I tell you what, bringing five class ones uh to the table to allocate the the financing was very challenging. And uh, but we were able to get it done, and we were able to uh apply for some federal grants and we got some federal participation to help to help fund uh to fund the project, and it all worked out very well.
SPEAKER_02And I I have so many technical questions for Nick and Kevin, but I'm gonna hold off for one second. Eric, one other thing I think that would be helpful to some of our listeners is um maybe you could provide just a brief uh definition of what a terminal railroad is. I know there are several across the country, and I know that you are involved, like you just said, with multiple class ones that might interchange. Um maybe you could just shed some light on what that what it means to be a terminal railroad?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so we're we're we're sort of similar to a joint facility. We're we're our own corporation with shareholders that are class one railroads, uh, and and they'll select the you know the uh the directors and uh managers of the railroad. Um and our job is to provide a transportation system that accommodates their needs. Um and that includes in St. Louis uh managing the two Mississippi River bridges and keeping those in a state of good repair and and you know able to transport the network traffic uh very reliably and safely.
SPEAKER_02And the five that are working with you, I'm I'm just guessing. I'm guessing is it Union Pacific, BNSF, or I maybe I better not say which which five are they?
SPEAKER_04Uh it's Union Pacific, CSX, CN, uh, which is it's actually Illinois Central, which is owned by CN, um Norfolk Southern, and uh uh CSX.
SPEAKER_02So Okay. Okay. Cool. I'm sure it's really easy to get all of them on the same page about how to spend more money on their assets. I'm sure that was not an easy task for you. When did you I I also do have to ask, how long did it take? I mean, have you been did you identify this replacement 10 years ago? Or I mean, has this been a long in the works process to say, all right, we're gonna finally get the funding for this?
SPEAKER_04Uh it it preceded when I got here. Uh I was just kind of helpful with the the federal uh the federal grant uh applications and an overall bridge management. Um so I was able to bring that that those skill sets over and uh help in that regard to really push this forward and and uh be able to manage these grants and and uh especially these procurements uh these you know the consulting engineering firm and the contractors.
SPEAKER_02So this has been going on a long time. This is, I'm guessing, a pretty sizable uh highlight to your career.
SPEAKER_04Oh, no question. Uh it it I can't go without uh George Morrison's kind of an interesting engineer. He's an engineer with uh who's an attorney that became an engineer, and I'm I'm an engineer that also became an attorney. And it the bookends are just uh uh striking uh and and and I learned that as we go through uh from uh one of the engineers involved was Nick Marianos, and he was uh you know, he he was really he pushed this project to uh to get replaced in uh Gotta mention him, him uh one of the big proponents of this project.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Nick's a great guy. I know Nick, he's uh very helpful uh on Committee Seven as well. And don't know if he listens to the podcast, but there's your shout out, Nick. Uh you know, speaking of Nick, let's just go right over to you, maybe Trans Systems and briefly what was your scope? Uh you know, obviously Eric must have uh let the public know that this was uh gonna be a potential project. And then did you put how did you put your team together and what what was Kevin's role? However you want to roll there, Nick.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so we uh you know we we teamed with Burns and Mac as a a major partner uh nearly 50-50. So so it was really a big partnership between both of ours, and I think we both brought uh you know different elements to the to the project, local knowledge and and uh some local people. Alan Smith was the project manager for the project since left trans systems, but uh he was a big part in that um you know selection committee and the proposal that we put together. But um, you know, I think we we actually had a pretty unique teaming arrangement when it came down to the the work share that I kind of wanted to bring up. You know, we we both wanted to, you know, say we were designing the main span over the river, right? So so I think we we got our heads together and we kind of split out different elements of the truss and the substructure, and we neither one or the other designed that portion or we we actually teamed together and designed one piece and the other team checked it. So I actually would go over to Burns and Mac weekly for a while. We had design meetings and uh just going through mainly the trust design with with Kevin and Steve Pellegrino as well, who was heavily involved. So so that that was a great experience and getting to learn a lot through that experience as well.
SPEAKER_02So and you guys knocked this out in uh 13 months to beat the George Morris in 14 months, is that right? Maybe one span, yeah. Yeah, that's right. So when did you guys when were you selected, uh Kevin? Uh how long ago did this this kind of kick off? Just to give people an idea of of the timeline, because uh Eric did drop that fun fact.
SPEAKER_03You know, I don't have the exact date, but I'm gonna guess it's been about four years back when this all started with design. Uh we had a good, we had a preliminary phase to the design, then we had a final design phase, and it went out conventional uh design bid build. So there was a bidding phase and then a couple of years to get the bridge built itself. So it goes back probably a good four to five years when we when we started all this. When we started with the design, you know, we're there's three main spans over the Mississippi right now. They're 520 feet, the exist the original bridge. So what we looked at were several options. We knew that that navigation span was on the Illinois side, and that was the main 520-foot span that had to stay 520 feet. But these two adjacent spans, there was a middle span and then the west span, they could have been shorter. So we looked at could we put a pier in the middle and make them two 260-foot spans, or could we put two piers in that span and make them 174-foot spans where you would run into uh say deck plate girder type structures where you might save on the superstructure, but yet you have to pay more for the foundations that would go in the pier. And as part of that study would have been can we reuse the piers that were there? They were stonemasonry piers, or would we have to replace those piers? And back to the teamwork, Trans Systems was doing the hydraulics for the bridge. And so that proved to show we couldn't really add piers in the river, and that was the real driver of the selection process of what the new span arrangement was going to be. So we kind of settled on the 520-foot span, so we would have three of those and we would replace those structures in kind. That's kind of the preliminary phase.
SPEAKER_02I would implore anyone that's listening to this, if you're in the car or you're out on a on a jog or whatever, whenever you listen to these, uh, if you can get in front of a computer and Google uh the merchant's bridge just to get a visual of what they're talking about, um, it's it's massive. I mean, the when you say 520-foot spans and you talk about the loads that Eric mentioned, uh, it this is a momentous uh occasion here to to design something and build something like this. So when you evaluated those stonemasonry piers, which gosh, I keep thinking about that 14-month timeline, just those piers, uh I have no idea how they did that. Um what were the what were you evaluating it for? Obviously, when we see piers that big live load is is one thing, but it is St. Louis is a kind of an interesting area, right? Is is there seismic?
SPEAKER_03So the interesting part of that peer analysis, obviously the trains are heavy. The piers themselves were massive when you think about those stone masonry piers. We had several things to consider. There's barges that go up and down the Mississippi, so we had vessel collision load, which would be applied to the piers. And because of the New Madrid Fault, if you know Missouri, this the Booth Hill area, the southeast corner, is known for a very large earthquake that occurred in the early 1800s, 1812, the New Madrid Fault, they called it. That has effects that can come up into St. Louis. So they're not that significant, but it is a fairly significant earthquake that could hit the St. Louis area. So the real driver was seismic loading. We had to do an analysis of the structure itself for earthquake. And if you look in the AREMA manual, that's the American Railway Engineering Maintenance Manual that we all follow, they have different levels of seismic loading that you can apply to structures level one, level two, level three. So we actually did the analysis looking at these piers for different levels of earthquake because the cost to accommodate a level three earthquake, which is the 2475-year return period, is quite a bit more than the level two seismic return period. So that all came into play in assessing could we reuse these old piers or not. The piers themselves would not stand up to earthquakes without some additional supporting. So we looked at how could we strengthen the foundations with either drilled shafts and micropiles, and then we could put an encasement around those piers, bring that encasement all the way up, we tie it into the uh existing stone masonry, reinforce that cap, and you can make these stand up. And that's that was how the analysis kind of shook out. And back to what Nick was saying, we kind of divided up how we would design and detail those piers. So the Burns Mack group with the seismic analysis did the foundations, the drilled shafts, and the micropiles down low and trans systems, and Nick uh took the pier caps and columns and figured that portion out. So we in a way we could share the designs of those piers, and then we checked each other's work to make sure it was all good.
SPEAKER_02And I assumed while this is going on, Eric's probably having to work with the Coast Guard for that navigation span. Is that correct? Were you I assume you just had to keep the same envelope both height and width?
SPEAKER_04Or yeah, we we we had we included that with the consultant package. So Trans Systems was a lead on that, and they they uh they took care of that for us. So appreciate it, appreciate that.
SPEAKER_05And Nick did the same thing. Go ahead, Nick. Yeah, we couldn't lower the the little cord, the horizontal clearance did get uh a little bit narrower.
SPEAKER_02Got it. Okay, and so what was the final um choice here? What what did you end up going with? Uh was it replace in kind? Uh just for the listener that really has no idea or didn't see the presentation.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so we we specified to have meet current arema clearances and low load rating, low capacity. Uh so we've we basically built replace in kind but wider structure for the clearances, um, and you know better details obviously for fatigue and and uh inspection and like that. So historically, they did want us to mimic the original uh look of the bridge, so it it looks historically sympathetic to the original trusses.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's a great question. Was there aesthetic requirements by uh historical organizations? I didn't even think about that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, State Historic Preservation Office. Uh we worked with them and uh yeah, so they were okay with the concrete encasement around the stone piers, and then but they wanted the truss to uh to look historically sympathetic to uh the original truss.
SPEAKER_02Gotcha. And then there's a long uh approach, right, on the east side. What did we do with the viaduct over there?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's right. Um it kind of gets sorry, I'll go ahead. It kind of gets forgotten sometimes, but uh you know, the main spans get the fanfare, but the east approach was uh very unique as well, um, and and really a big cost savings that really allowed for this project to happen too. So there's about 750 feet of steel trestle um that was encased in solar concrete fill. Previously, the west approach was was filled in similarly with another project before this, but uh the benefit there was they had they were working outside of the levee. So we're still inside the levee. We had to put culverts through the um through the existing structure and then built a kind of a foundation system outside and around the existing structure to to handle that. But uh but yeah, 750 feet of concrete fill uh encasement uh that uh that really saved a ton of maintenance work over the over time there.
SPEAKER_02So you can't see any of the old steel over there, it's all pretty much encapsulated. It's all buried in there, yeah. Okay, okay. Interesting. Uh well I mean go ahead.
SPEAKER_04That construction method, uh that construction method eliminated a lot of track outages. Um we were able to work below, not have as many uh track and above uh crane, you know, crane um encroachments. So that was a that helped keep our bridge in service during construction to a great extent.
SPEAKER_02So uh since this is a uh you know the purpose of this podcast really is also around the Hay Award. Um and this is open to any one of you that wants to respond. All three of you can respond individually. Um I guess whose idea was it or why did you think this would be a great project to submit uh to the to for the Hay Award? And uh what does or that or what does winning it mean for you uh as an individual, as an owner, as a consultant? I'll let anybody go with that. I know that I I threw a lot at you, but anyone can run.
SPEAKER_03Well, I I was gonna say I've been attending these arema technical conferences for many, many years. And you know, every year we'd see that Hay Award uh be given out, and it was really nice to be a part of it, you know, uh after having seen that award given out so many times, and it I think it means a lot to the industry. It certainly means a lot to our team as we went after that. So I was I was very uh very happy to to see that that project was selected.
SPEAKER_04Eric? Yeah, it's a it it's an absolutely prestigious award. I think I thought uh Alan Smith and Nick, you guys were kind of driving driving the application.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, I did a lot of that. Cool. Yeah, I I can say that uh similar to Kevin, um having attended this conference for forever, not as long as you, Kevin, but for a long time. Um when you see the types of projects, they're usually just they're they're massive, right? They're uh I think last year there was a pretty cool one on CSX uh was a yard, I believe, and it was electrified, and uh it pretty it was a big you know economic development driver for for uh South or North Carolina, I can't remember at this point, but you know, it touched a lot of a lot of people. And um, I think when you think about bridge engineering, when you think about the number of Mississippi River crossings we have, uh I mean Kevin, in your career, you know, I think you're a good example of someone's had an opportunity to touch uh and work on uh a lot of these Mississippi River crossings. The firm you work for that Burns and McDonald purchased uh definitely has a history of that. I remember many years ago uh competing uh with you guys on certain projects. Uh I mean how many Mississippi River crossings have you touched in your career, roughly?
SPEAKER_03So I've seven Mississippi River Bridges, and that was not complete designs, but that's that I've worked on. This was certainly, I would say, the most satisfying and and fun project to work on, especially when you look at how how it actually got built uh by Walsh Construction, the contractor. They they did a fantastic job of of building that. But uh yeah, it's uh it was a fun one to work on and uh good to see going across the Mississippi.
SPEAKER_02And seven, I mean, in 40 plus years of working, that's I mean that that should that should tell everybody something. I mean Kevin's uh Kevin's been around this industry a long time, and the fact that he's touched about seven tells you how rare, I guess, is the point I'm getting I'm driving towards. Uh and it's got to be satisfying for you as well growing up in Missouri, going to Rolla. You know, I mean you're a lifelong Missouri guy. You didn't just come swooping in from New York City or Los Angeles or something with a and get to work on this project. That had to be somewhat satisfying to you and Nick. Nick, you said you're from Omaha, and I know Eric, you're from the area as well. I mean, all three of you got to work on such a cool I don't know. I I think there's something neat about getting to work in your own backyard on something that is uh that visible uh to the public.
SPEAKER_04But yeah, Nick, yeah. It's uh you know, the St. Louis Riverfront and um St. Louis in the Midwest, you know, expansion out west is driven by you know the uh railroads uh from Chicago and St. Louis. Um you know, we fed Westward expansion. Historically, it is really cool to have have an impact on the transportation network in a large way like this. Um you know, we're we're we're rebuilding a network that has served this country well and needs to uh improve its service uh into the future, but re replacing these uh 1890 structures, you know, working on these uh George Morrison structure, you know, that that that is historically significant, and I'll always uh uh appreciate that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the um you you know you said 1890. Uh when I was down in Pueblo on that derailment, the structure there was built in 19 I want to say 1959, and I've I've watched a lot of the I'll I'm gonna reserve my uh comments because I'm currently wearing an arema hat. I will simply say I've watched a lot of the media around the project, and when you hear them talk about how old that bridge was, and and how all the how they got to chase down the paperwork for ownership, etc. And I'm just thinking to myself, old 1959 in a bridge design uh bridge engineers world, uh railroad bridge world, that's that's a new bridge, man. That's maybe, maybe thinking about hitting its midlife crisis. Um and it was it was almost kind of sad uh to see that one get uh knocked out versus some of the stuff you guys are working with. And you said EDS was I don't know the number. EADS is 1870s?
SPEAKER_041874.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and that was the first deal.
SPEAKER_04That's the oldest bridge this uh that's in existence. It wasn't the first bridge across the Mississippi, but it's a it's the oldest one in existence. Okay, yeah, that's like one of the most famous bridges uh in the country, hands down, especially they use they use those foundation uh construction uh methods all across the Mississippi River ones and yeah, roveling. I mean it the lineage on Eads and Morrison is very impressive uh throughout this country.
SPEAKER_02That would have been an interesting time to be alive for sure. Um Nick or Kevin, any other shout-outs? I did hear a couple, I heard Walsh Construction. Um were there other subcontractors potentially that you would like to thank or you can think of at this time?
SPEAKER_05Not that yeah, I mean there's there's so many of them, you know, on the on the on the construction side, especially now there's a lot of concepts to Walsh that that did a lot of great work. Um, you know, Genesis structures, they allowed the foundation and barge design and temporary works design, along with Mamut, you know, who who put in those those great red cantry towers, you know, so that you know they did a a great job and really made I think that that job possible for Walsh and winning that br that uh that bid there. But uh again, then uh Veritas Steel as well was the steel fabricator, you know, who did a great job, very very few issues to work with there too. So um and then uh I'll just mention SCI engineer was geotech and uh Design Nine was a uh sub on the track design as well.
SPEAKER_02Cool, another local firm to the St. Louis area and Genesis, yep, great firm out of KC doing construction engineering, the Dave's uh love working with those guys. Awesome. Well, guys, I really appreciate the three of you spending a little bit of time with me today uh and and helping us with the podcast. This is super cool to hear about, and I'm I might make this a tradition to interview the Hay Award winners because uh I learned a lot that I did not capture uh in the two minutes that you got up there and received your award and shook hands and take photographs. Um there's anything else you want to add, you can, or we can shut it down. I can uh start with you, Kevin. Are you good?
SPEAKER_03The only thing I would add, and people can go on the internet and see some of the way that Walsh built this bridge, but it was a combination of float-in, strand jack lift, lateral slide, set the bridge in place. And that was after lifting the old bridge, sliding it over, lowering it to barges, floating away. So there, you know, oftentimes we'll see a float-in or we'll see a lateral slide. This particular project had a combination of all of them, and it's it's pretty fascinating to watch. So I'd encourage people to go take a look at that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that should get you excited about bridge engineering, that's for sure. Cool. All right, Nick, you go ahead?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, well, I was gonna leave it with a quote from Nick Marianos. Um he had many on the project, but uh probably my favorite one was uh, you know, despite all our best efforts, a bridge was built.
SPEAKER_02Well, I will say Eric's probably not gonna want to try to trump that one. So uh we'll let that one go. Thank you. All right, thank you to all three of you uh for this. Congratulations to all of you, all the participants on this project and uh for the firms that were involved. And uh yeah, very cool. And and it was good to see some of you at Arima, and I'll see you guys sometime in the future. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Bye.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for rolling with Arima on today's episode of Platform Chats. For further information about Arima, please visit arema.org or contact us at info at arema.org.
