Rebranding in the Rail Industry

Does the railroad industry have an identity issue? How do employers rebrand post “The Great Resignation”? How can railroads of all types draw the best talent when faced with fierce competition from tech and other areas of transportation? In this episode, Walt tackles these questions with Michele Malski, founder of Succession Planning for Railroads Investing in the Next Generation (SPRING LLC). As a recruiter for railroads and a second-generation railroader herself, Michele has firsthand insight into what the next generation of railroaders is looking for in an employer. One tip: they don’t want your grandfather’s railroad. It’s important to show that you are more than just a company and look beyond traditional related degrees for the best candidates.  The rail industry has endured many recessions before and has a strong future ahead. It’s an episode sure to generate some questions so it's important to stay open-minded.

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

Well, I would say that we have a very strong future ahead of us. We need the help of our next generation, though. So the the way we are driven for the future is going to depend on how we bring in this next generation. We need to excite them. We need to show them the way. We, you know, we can't hold on to our egos and everything that we know like this. We have to relinquish a little bit of that knowledge. We have to build those mentorship programs. We have to cultivate them. We have to cultivate that interest once again. So as long as we have the strength in our workplaces and that that passion and that, you know, how it kind of worked for me, it gets in your blood. If we can continue to make that a reality, you know, I think we're going to be looking in pretty good shape. Again, we have gone through recessions. Railroads are still here. We, how many other industries can you look at that say we've been around for a hundred years or more? Not many. We're not going away anytime soon. The only thing that we are going to do is get stronger, and we're going to we some of us might get bigger. There's going to be more opportunities as we start looking at you know the different uh liquefied gas and petroleum gas and all that good stuff. Um, you know, there's there's plenty of room for opportunity, especially with technology, um, as automation starts to become a situation for some companies. Um, you know, there's there's just so much room for growth. Um, and and that growth is exactly what we need to be sharing with that next generation. It's exactly what we need to be communicating to that audience. And as long as we can continue to inspire and get those people excited about our industry, which again, we're not doing a great job at right now, but if we can do that in the next 10, 20 years, we're not gonna have any problem whatsoever. Uh, in fact, I think we will once again come back as a king employer and we will have a rail renaissance, and I think that's kind of what we're on a cusp of right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

You may know the American Railway Engineering and Maintenance of Way Association, or AREMA, as the quote, keepers of the manuals. You may know them as the quote people behind the largest annual railroad conference in North America. Heck, you may not know about AREMA at all. This podcast is designed, no pun intended, to change your view of who AREMA is and how AREMA has changed the trajectory of many railway careers over its 100-plus year history. Welcome to Platform Chats with your host, Walt Lesser, where he takes a moment to discuss the impacts AREMA has had on the very people who are proud to be called members. Are you ready to roll with AREMA?

SPEAKER_02 2:40

ARE Corporation is a proud supporter of AREMA and Platform Chats. If you are looking to take your railway structure's career to the next level, or simply start it down the right track, please visit us at ARECorp.com. Please see our brand new job postings on our careers page or on our LinkedIn page.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Hey everybody, welcome back to the latest episode of Platform Chats, where we are in season two, episode five, I believe. We are doing our best to make this monthly, if not a little quicker. This would have been recorded about a week a week or so ago, but unfortunately, yours truly finally picked up something off the playground that his child brought home. Let's just be very clear. I was not on the playground, but my little guy was, and he brought something home to dad, and it has uh sat with me for a good eight days, and I can still feel it in my my chest, and I can hear it in my voice, so I apologize. But the good news is I uh I have a guest today that's gonna handle all the talking. I've she comes to me with uh a reputation of not being light on words, and that is exactly what we need. It's what our listeners need, and I'm super excited to talk to her. We're really gonna take a bit of a uh little side road here. Uh last time we talked, it was about the Hay Award, and we've done some very ma-focused podcasts. But the goal of today's podcast is to listen and hear from uh not only a second generation railroader, uh, but someone that's working right now in the middle of what I consider the most wild job market that we have seen uh in quite some time. We've heard things like the Great Resignation, we have seen uh coronavirus, we've seen changes in the way people work, uh the way people office, and it's uh affecting the railroad industry no different than anything else. Uh as an employer myself, I'm having trouble finding and retaining individuals. Uh and our guest today specializes in both of those, but she's got a great lens uh to look through from a railroad perspective. So with that, uh I would like to introduce uh Michelle Malsky. She is the founder and president of Spring Recruits, and like any good railroading term, Spring is an acronym. I will let her uh explain where that came from. But she has started in the railroad industry, she's a she is a second generation railroader, she's got quite an interesting and colorful background. And so from there, Michelle, I'm gonna hand it off to you. Tell us all about yourself, and uh and and please do end with with how you started Spring.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Walt, and hello Remo listeners. We really appreciate the opportunity to get in front of you today and share a little bit about our story. So thank you for this opportunity. So, first, uh hey everybody, uh, I'm Michelle. I'm the founder and president of Spring, but I didn't start out there. So let's uh kind of wind it back a little bit and I'll share a little bit about how I got in the industry. So back in the day, my father was uh uh a rail fan, I guess you could say. And um, he grew up uh in Strand, Pennsylvania, and he saw the influx of uh trains, freight, uh passenger all in that area, um, you know, 10 trains a day from Strand in New York City, um, and just really fell in love with the industry. He got his self himself involved, uh, became an attorney, started his own authority, and um they hire a group called the Delaware Lackawanna, that's their carrier, that is um operating in services there at their industries. So when I was a young pup, uh I went out on several field trips with my father, and you know, I'd be in the backseat, he'd crack the window open just a little bit, leave me a bowl of water in the back. And uh so you know, I'd I'd listen and I'd hear and I'd observe, and we'd we'd go to places like new bridge constructions or a new customer site. And the way that he would change his tone and the way that he would be able to communicate with all these different groups was really fascinating. And I said that that really takes a mastery of the language and of communication to be able to communicate with all these different groups. But of course, you know, not everything comes smoothly, so there's always obstacles and things to overcome. And when I saw him come over some of these and overcome some of these, you know, issues, whether it was a washout or something like that, it really just started to get me more excited about the industry because every day was different. Um, and I don't know about you, but I'm one of those people that I need to have my either my hand in every pie or I I need to be doing something. I'm I'm just one of those people. And so when I started to see that and and how he talked to different groups and and how he was tackling these different problems, he really inspired me to get involved in the industry. And you know, I I always thought, you know, I'd kind of follow in his footsteps and just do it bigger and better. Um, but of course, you know, that that's all all next generation's uh goals to outdo whoever was first, right? Um but really I just uh wanted to make him proud, right? Um and I'm sure I am, and that's fine. And we were like best friends, so that that's another key key component of that too. Um, but so one of the things that I really loved about the industry was that there weren't that many women. I didn't see many people that looked like me in the industry. And my father always said, This is a great opportunity for you. You know, you you're kind of a shark, you go for what you want. Even as a young kid, I was the loudest kid in kindergarten, um, always outspoken, and and he said this could be a really good spot for you. Um and so I started to really consider that more and more. And so knowing I wanted to come into the railroad industry, I tried to carve my path that way in that direction, similar to what he did as well. Um, and so I graduated from Cornell University with a degree in industrial and labor relations with the Minor Law and Society, um, again, kind of going on that pre-law track. And every summer that I had, I was working with a different railroad company. The first one was Norfolk Southern. I did an internship with them for six months. The next summer I was with Amtrak with our government relations team down in DC. Um, and I also did a winter over in Berlin, Germany, where I was working with Bombardier Transportation. So, you know, I kind of really focused my energies that way in that direction. And there's gonna be a couple lessons that I come back to there, so just remind me to come back to that. So, you know, knowing that I wanted to have all that experience right out of the gate coming out of school, you know, I I would start applying to different jobs in the railroad industry. And you know, I think all of us coming out of college kind of think we are the best at our game. And I think that's something that, you know, you have to learn pretty quickly. And it was either from my dad or from one of the interviews I I um I applied for and had an interview with that they said, so so what's your experience? I said, Well, I did all these internships. Um, a little fun fact internships are not real work experience. So, you know, all of us that are coming out of college, just one tip of advice, you know, um eat a little bit of humble pie before you come out, right? And I know that's hard because you know, you're you're you're graduating, you're at the top of your game, you're you're you're excited, you're you're poised, you're ready to go. Um believe me, I was the same way, so this is coming from the heart, it's coming from experience when I say that. Um, but you know, it is really good to get a couple years' experience. Get that one year of a yard master, get that one year of a conductor, get that one year of an accountant, uh, whatever it may be. If you're serious about this industry or or even a relative industry, whether it's trucking, logistics, transloading, doesn't matter, um carve it in a way that you at least get that first year in. That's very important. Because having that then is your next building block for your next building block for your next building block. Internships are great and it shows employers that, hey, I'm serious about this path, but on the same hand, um it's not real life experience. So there's your first slap in the face. And they say that with a humorous touch and of course from the heart, right? But um, we you gotta kind of set that expectation for yourself, okay? Um, and it it's only gonna gain you credibility when you start from the ground up, when you actually understand how a railroad works, when you actually understand how to replace a knuckle, when you've been out with the tracking, maybe over a summer, maybe you're only out there for a week to learn. Whatever the case may be, you're still seeing it firsthand, you're seeing it, you know, how a railroad is actually run. So, you know, that's that's tip number one. So now going on this pathway here, kind of going through my resume. Um, after I graduated from Cornell, um, I went to BNSF as a management trainee. There I became a train master over on the Montana division. This was during the Bakken boom. So uh spent some time in Minot, North Dakota at that time. Um, and from there transitioned over to Canadian Pacific as a division train master, where I had a much larger territory and it was kind of cool because I got to interchange with my dad's railroad. So to start to get a little bit of that experience with the short lines and and other uh players in the game. So that was uh that was a really fun time, especially during like Thanksgiving or whatever, and my interchange cards weren't taken yet. I'm like, you ain't getting this butter unless you give me those interchange cards. So we always had a nice little you know back and forth about that and about work. So, you know, that that was really a key to to our relationship as well. Um, but again, you know, uh I got started uh just really from the inspiration and and the the encouragement that my father gave me, and that's something that still resonates with me and with Spring is if you are a newcomer to this industry, just want to get involved, want to see more about it, talk to people that have that experience, talk to people that maybe are in your area, and uh we can guide those conversations. And I think this is a good part, and I'll come back to my resume in a second. So I hope y'all are following. I'm gonna take you on this journey. We're gonna go to different pockets, and we're gonna come back and circle back and give us a and I do want to hit you right there.

SPEAKER_03 12:23

Uh, when you graduated Cornell in a in a pre-law track, um what made you not go to law school? Not to completely derail this story, but what what did keep you from going to law school and and going to sunny Minot, North Dakota uh with BNSF?

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Hey, why not my not? Uh we'll get there, Well. We're not there quite yet.

SPEAKER_03 12:44

Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

We'll get there. But um what I wanted to just come back here to is this is a great opportunity to talk about associations as well. So um, you know, when you are a young pup and and wanting to learn, start looking at some of your industry, even if it's not the real industry, again, maybe it's transloading, maybe it's something else, maybe it's rail shippers. Um there are plenty of different associations that that you can get a part of, and and I want to talk about that probably a little bit more towards the end. Um, but okay, let's continue back to to my path here. So, one of the great things about being at CP, of course, you're back, I was back on the East Coast, that's where I'm originally from. Um and then you know, from there, uh did actually get into law school and decided to go to law school for a little while. But then the thing is, is once you start in the rail industry, you you get this bug. You get it in your blood, and then you miss it. You miss the paychecks, you miss the people, you miss the camaraderie, you really miss the industry. And so being away from my industry, not getting that experience, remember how important that experience is that I told you from the beginning. At a young age, you want to get as much experience as you can under your belt. Um, and so I left law school to come back and get some more uh experience. And on this time, I worked with Bombardier here in the US. And so I was an operations manager for the MARC train train system here from Baltimore to Washington. Um, from that, you know, I was only there for a short time until I then discovered some opportunities with the American Shortline Regional Railway Association, the ASLRA, and they were partnering with the FRA to build what is known now as the Shortline Safety Institute. So I was the manager of safety programming and hazmat programming for the Shortline Safety Institute. And that was an awesome opportunity, again, getting to see all the different shortlines in the US, getting to work with different players that you know really needed some resources or just a refresher of either, you know, what is safety culture, what what makes that, but also you know, how do we enhance what you're doing for hazmat training? Hazmat training can be quite um a colossal topic to handle by yourself, especially when you are a mom and pop railroad. So this was a great resource, a free resource that anybody could take advantage of and really amp up their educational value. So working with those experts and uh working with that team was uh a great opportunity and always will be grateful for that. And I any employers that are listening out there today, I'd definitely uh reach out to them, and and again, it's a free service, so why not? So um from Spring or from uh SLSI, you know, what I kept hearing again and again and again, whether you're working for a class one or whether you're working at a shortline, is we can't find people. I don't know where they are. Where the heck are all the people? Well, this is where you find this need, and then I came up with the solution. So um, you know, what we really focus on at spring is recruiting and retention, and you know, we we won't get too too deep down into our services and things like that, but just know at the end of the day that we our mission is to bridge the gap between seekers and employers, and we want to get the next generation excited about our jobs and our careers nationwide. And I encourage all of you, if you are an employer listening today, uh, you know, do the same thing. We're you know, you we you might think that we're competitors, but really we're we're all here to help each other and we're all in this together. And we can't go to every tech school, high school, college, community college. So, you know, help us out. Uh the more our community, the more the external world knows about us and what we do, the easier it is for me to sell that opportunity to to our audiences. So let's see, where should we go from here, Walt?

SPEAKER_03 16:19

Well, you know, you're uh I I spoke with with Erica Brumke, and I will tell you she was right. Um, you're not short on words, and I think that's fantastic. Uh, it is you are just uh definitely gonna make sure that I unpack a lot that was just said. So uh congratulations on potentially our longest intro uh as a podcast guest. I will ship you a little trophy for that. No, you said there was just so much in there that I I was trying to grab onto because I I could have taken a number of things you said and just gone down a rabbit hole. But I I am gonna start right here with what you're currently doing in uh recruitment. And you you said something specifically about the you're bridging the gap between the uh the employees and the employers, right? So in our industry, that's gonna be our folks that are out there job seeking, and then for for the purposes of this call, let's just say class one railroads, shortline railroad owners, and then uh AE firms, consultants, et cetera, like that, uh or suppliers. How big is that gap? And do you believe that that gap has changed since let's just say the 70s, uh the 60s, uh, and the view of railroads in in this world? And and then now it's 2022, and BNSF, Union Pacific, et cetera, are competing against uh you know Facebook and Meta and uh Tesla and all these sexy new techs. Do you feel that that gap has gotten larger? And how do you address that?

SPEAKER_01 17:57

I love that you asked this, but we we're gonna go over time, I'm sure. There might have to be a part two to this. All right, so let's get started here. Um let's let's go back a little history lesson. So back in the 70s, 80s, you know, railroading was king. Um there were plenty more railroad shortlines all over the US. Um, even prior to that, um, you know, there were there were thousand, I wouldn't, I don't know if I'll go thousands, but there were way more shortlines or way more railroad companies in our world um, you know, pre the automobile things like that, through bankruptcies, new technologies, things changed. Uh the smallers got eaten, um, the strong ones stayed around. Um, and now, you know, even now we're looking probably around this this number uh contains transit, commuter, and freight, uh, just a little over 700 uh shortline and railroads that are classified with the FRA. So, you know, there were plenty of us, and uh the the thing was we used to be the the king, and we got used to sitting in that throne of people will always want to come work for us because our benefits are so great, we pay people so well. Well, just as it happened in the past, you know, we are resilient, which is a great key to have as any industry, but we are now competing not only against ourselves, but with all of the other modes of transportation, with all of the techs, with all of the other what remote work that you can do. Um, so there is a lot of changes going on that um you know, I think some of us as employers need to wake up and say, listen, we are no longer competing against me and and the shortline next door. We are competing with the Googles, the Walmarts, the you know, JB Hines, everybody. We are competing with everybody and everybody's in the same situation. And now that that's pre-COVID. Now, after COVID, um, you know, when everybody really had a uh a problem with with not necessarily getting people to to come to work during that time, but because you know we're essential workers in the rail industry, but post that um, you know, we we laid off a little too deep, and then so coming out of that resurrection, uh, you know, trying to get people to come back from that is uh has been a challenge for for a lot of of folks. I'm gonna say a majority of folks. Um but that being said, you know, it's it's interesting to see the different departments. I'm gonna kind of go down a rabbit hole on this one for a second. Um, one of the departments that I have not really seen much of a change was those that had capital projects planned. So maintenance away folks really were still going to work, they're still working outside, they're still doing a lot of the you know the money that was already spent for that year. Um so those projects and that group had really kind of seen the lesser of the hit. Um but now as we're kind of again coming out, and there's a a lot of um federal funding, there's a lot of Chrissy grants out there, there's a lot of opportunity for growth uh infrastructure-wise, we're seeing a big push for the for the MOW department, the mechanical department, um, really anything structural. Um, and and it's uh it's a great thing to see, but again, it's people have realized, especially the candidates that had continued to work during COVID, how valuable they are. And they are, we're all valuable as employees at wherever wherever we work. Um, but that as you know, from a hiring employer or recruiter, um, what you're seeing is uh demands are a lot higher, a lot of demands are a lot different than they were pre-COVID. So sometimes we as the employer have to get a little bit more creative now of how we're gonna attract that talent to our company. And I will tell you, um, this is the two education pieces I have for our employers, is is we have two things we have to reflect on. Uh the first one is internally, and the second one is externally. So as an employer, um, and this and this really goes for associations as well, but as an employer, um, we really have to do a better job at rebranding ourselves. We are no longer the king. We are no longer sitting on that throne of we can get anybody we want uh to come to my uh workplace because we own this. Well, there's a lot of other employers out there that are offering higher wages than you. Uh remote. Remote work, you know, so there's there's a little bit of a rebranding issue that we really have to talk about. So internally, we have to think about what are we projecting outward, right? What is um what is our vision, what's our mission, um, who are we helping in our community? What that this generation wants is way different than what people from the 70s, 80s, 90s, well, 80s wanted, right? Um, that were able to work during those times. So, what we need to then now do is adjust. We have to adjust with the times, and we're good at this, but we're slow to do this. Um, and so one of the things I I ask you to do is really reflect. Um, reflect on what your brand looks like. I want us, I want if you're a shortline, I want your logo to be as recognizable in your local community as that red target sign, and that's the goal that you need to shoot for. Even with Spring, when we go to different community colleges, when we go to veteran bases, if someone calls me and says, you know, I was thinking about this, I that that's a success for me because they thought about it twice. They thought about it when I had a conversation with them about the jobs in in this area or wherever they were looking, and then they called me back to say, Hey, can you tell me more? So they thought about it twice. That that's where we need to be. We need to be that second thought. We need to have more of that um uh draw-in, right? So a lot of this has to do with branding. But the second part of this is also on the on the internal side, is we have to be ready for that. Um, we have to be uh ready to take in new new candidates. And these new candidates, I'm telling you, they probably won't have real experience. And that's okay if you're looking for someone with that, but just know that that's gonna narrow down your field. If you stay open-minded, and again, think about that rebrand. If you can think open-mindedly and say, I can look at any different career path, whether you're coming to from business school, whether you're coming from Cornell, whether you're coming from a tech school, whether you're coming straight out of the military, I can train you up and get you into whatever position I have here. Because I'll tell you the most important thing is aptitude, is having that attitude to want to work. Um, we can teach railroad skills any day, you know. We we've been in the rail industry, we know it, we love it, and we can train anybody in it. It's really that attitude that we want to make our culture different and to make sure that they want to come and work for us. But again, wanting them to come work for us. Now, I stole this from the sales side, but of course, here's what it boils down to candidates are not gonna come to your company unless they know, like, and trust you. I wish we could have like little letters that popped up here, but KLT, right? This is your basic sales principle. People, if they don't know you, they're not gonna come and talk to you. So just the conversation right out of the gate is gone. Um, if they don't like you, why would they spend the rest of their life with you if you want them to be a lifer, right? And they're not gonna trust you with their time, their family, or anything else if if they don't do the other two. So people have got to know you exist. Again, that brand. They need to know your brand. That's the first step. Get your brand out there, be consistent, go to different local high schools, go to the community colleges, go every every year. You've got to go, and it's not a one and done. Michelle, I went to this one community college event and I didn't get anybody. Okay, that's good. I'm proud of you. Way to go. But you gotta go now every year. You gotta make that commitment to build your pipeline. They still don't know you. And guess what? All those people just graduated, so you need to start to get to know the staff, you need to start to get to know the recruiting services of these different colleges. So be an entity that people know. Once they know that you exist, then you can they can start to like you. You can start telling them about your benefits, you can start telling them about all the training programs that you have, and you should. And if you don't, we'll talk about that later. But you the what you really need to start showing people is that you matter to the community, you're here to stay, and you offer great benefits. All right. Um, and and more so, um, you know, the next generation doesn't necessarily care too much about um salary. I know that some will disagree with me there, but they want to know what kind of training program they have. They want to know what their progression path is gonna be. And I will tell you, after looking from class ones to short lines, we are not good as an industry showing that progression path. Put it on your job descriptions. I almost cursed, so I hope. Sorry, one of them pops out. I'm really sorry.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

No, it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Put it on your job description. Say you could start here as a track laborer, and if you're successful and you master these skills, here's eight different directions that you could go. So, you know, again, it starts with being open-minded, but then it's it's knowing, liking, and trusting, building that KLT philosophy and being an entity that your community knows, likes, and trusts.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

So if we if we flip the script just a little bit, I I like your no like trust uh commentary here. Uh you you also briefly touched on this generation. Let's let's focus a little bit on the generation that's not my father's generation. So, you know, my dad got out of school and started working in probably 69 or 70, I want to say. Um, I am guessing his wants and needs uh when he was looking for a position were different than uh per se someone who literally just graduated this spring. Uh what do employers need to know about this new generation, this this say uh 22 to 30 year old generation that is different uh than say what I know as a 42-year-old?

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Right. They don't want your grandfather's railroad, I'll tell you that right now. They don't well they don't want to know that at all. What we have been very successful at, and you see the class one's doing this very successfully, is talking about their sustainability. Um they want to see the path to greener services, and we all know for in the industry how how what how great we are for the the environment, how many trucks we take off the road, how many gallons per, you know, one uh our our locomotives are way more energy efficient than than trucking would be, right? So that's a whole other you know lobbying conversation that we can have. But we know the effects of of how beneficial we are for our environment. So one of the things I will say is continue to highlight how gr how how great we are and how great our um industry is for the overall use of lowering um you know greenhouse gases, things like that. Um showcase some of the technology that we're using, um, you know, showing them showing the next generation again that that we're we're doing everything we can to not necessarily autonomize anything, but to to bring things into computers, to bring things to digital the digital world instead of levers and you know filling things manually and things like that, right? Um so sustainability is a big one, technology is another one, these are things to highlight. Um I I can't stress this enough, but training. Again, we um we're probably not going to be getting a lot of railroad um knowledgeable folks for those entry-level positions in the in the future, and and you might, you still might, and you might need that, and that's okay too. But if we are open-minded enough and we have good training programs, we can take somebody with zero railroad experience and get them caught up and trained in a way that they want to stay there. So building mentorship programs, having someone that's gonna, you know, be that person's coach throughout the way, be who my dad was for me or who I'm being for others kind of coming up in the industry, checking in on them, doing doing those kind of things. So highlight your training, your your training aspects, highlight that you have a mentorship program. Um, even as simple as um, you know, ads, make sure you put women in there, make sure you put people of diversity in there, right? I mean, just put them in your and I and I hope it's true for the makeup of your company as well. I hope you're you know trying to be more diverse because that leads to better results and bottom lines in the in the in the end, but you know, different perspectives and things like that. But just your your basic materials and things that you're promoting with, do your best to show that you know people like me are working there. Um that's a huge draw as well. Um, and and besides that, I I want to know as the as the next generation, again, just putting myself in that candidate shoes um who's going to be graduating next year, tell me what charities you're you're you're giving to. Tell me what 5K's you run. Um, CP does a great job at this. They show all the different veteran and the the uh Red Cross they they do a big charity for every year. So, you know, there are things that you can highlight that show that you're giving back. Um, and you're more than just a company. You're more than just, you know, my grandfather's old railroad. You are actually giving and you want to be a part of this community, and there's a bunch of different ways for you to be involved and and and give back to to your to your local uh communities and also national communities as well.

SPEAKER_03 30:40

You hit on a great word there, uh mentorship. And given that this is the ARIMA podcast, uh, I think that one thing at AREMA we pride ourselves in is providing a platform uh for mentorship. So, you know, a lot of the people that are listening to this podcast, they might not even be hiring right now. Um, but you know what, they might have a very strong desire to provide mentorship to that younger generation. Uh we try try to do our best through our committees and um giving people the ability to, well, frankly, to take a lead role in technical committees, but to me it's more than that. Do you feel that Arima, ASLRA, Alphabet Soup, you you come up with whatever you want? Are they doing a good job of showing those um opportunities to this generation that, hey, this is where you go learn from? And and listen, uh anything you say, don't don't feel like you're gonna offend me or a remote, because we want to get better at at this. So, what is your take on that right now? Do people even know what who we are?

SPEAKER_01 31:46

That that's a great question. And um, I'll play the political angle of this. I think there's always room for improvement for for any association. Um, you know, one of them being if if you if you flip that script a little bit and say, if I'm a student, how do you how do you know about ARIMA? Maybe it's word of mouth, maybe you do have a student chapter, which is excellent. Um, but do you have a student membership rate? Do you have a way that do you have somebody within that association that goes and not necessarily recruits, but goes and shares about the opportunities within your association? I'm not talking about jobs, I'm just saying about general membership recruitment. Um, because a lot of ways you think about sales and you think about recruiting, um, they have a lot of the same philosophies, right? You you'll meet with your customers and tell them why they should, you know, like your your you, your services. The same thing with recruiting. You go out to your audiences and you tell them why they should be a part of your organization. Um, and and I think associations can do a better job at whether it's partnering with different colleges, and and and here's the thing, I I I love that there are railroad specific colleges out there. I I love that there's curriculum now for railroads to get people more absorbed to our culture and our industry, but that's not the only colleges and campuses out there. No matter what college or campus is near you, go to them, talk to them. They do not have to be railroad specific. I will show you that I could take a business administrative person that's graduating from a management class and put them into as a train master. Half the stuff you do with a trade master is talking to others, customer relations, conflict resolution. Um, you know, these are just skills that that can transfer from that degree over here. So don't be barred that, oh well, I can't make it to Penn State to go recruit here, or oh, I can't go to the Michigan, I can't go to Wisconsin to go to that one. Um, you know, don't don't be closed-minded, don't be so myopic to say that these are the only schools that we can recruit from, because it's not. Um, you have to be open-minded enough to say, and secure enough to say that, hey, I have a good training program for you. Um, but we can take a chance on another college or or area to say, hey, you know, look at our opportunities and and again become that known entity there. But going back to our associations, what I would love to see is there be student rates, to have somebody dedicated, even if it's just one college or one tech school or one veteran base, whatever the case may be, to have uh a representative there at those career fairs and just say, hey, join our association. We have you know 30% off. It's 30 bucks to be a part of a REMA or ASRA or whatever the case may be. You know, come to our annuals, um, network with employers. This is the way you're gonna get into the industry. And quite frankly, I've I have never seen that in that space. I've never seen an association come to any of the spaces I was, and and hey, they they you could have, and I and I missed you, or or we're we're we were at different events, which is great. Um, but we we really need to reach out to these communities to show them that we are here to stand. But we as the associations are a great place to start. We have all the employers with us, they showcase every year at our annuals. What a better way to get an intern, right? And then the other side of it too is um, and I and I know there's scholarships, and that's great, and I think that's a great opportunity for people to get to know different associations. I know the League of Railway Women, in which I'm a board member of. Um, we do a scholarship every year. We do two, I think we might be bumping it up to a couple more. Um, and and our the folks that run that are great. Um, and it's the same thing that, and and I'm pretty sure there's other associations that do multiple other scholarships. But again, who who how are they talking to students? How are they getting those scholarships? Unless it's a mom or a dad of a railroader, right? If if that's our audience, that's great. I mean, we're we're getting applicants, which is cool, but on the same hand, we're not impacting the the folks that have no clue who we are. Um so if we're only giving money back in to our our the people that already know us, it's kind of like preaching to the choir a little bit. And so I would dare to challenge the different associations to say, how can we get that scholarship money to folks that we've we've never showcased to before or that we've never connected to before? And it could be as simple as emailing the career resource center of a local community college or whatever the case may be, and just saying, hey, we have this great opportunity, please list us in in the resources you have for funding opportunities for for this school or this Alfred or Women's Center or whatever the case may be.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

Outstanding. I yeah, no, I understand. It's it's not an easy answer, right? And one thing that I've as we've been talking here for however long, I have heard you say grandfather's railroad, and I've heard you say, you know, we used to be the kings, etc. etc. And now we're up against all the everyone else is with us. Um looking at the clock that you see running, in 60 seconds or less, do you think the industry has an identity issue?

SPEAKER_01 36:44

That's a great question. Um give us a yes and no, because the people that know us know us for for certain reasons. And there's multiple different reasons, so I guess it depends on your background and flip that in on a different lens. Um for those that don't know anything about us, I'd say we're we're failing there. We are in an identity crisis, and that's why we need to reinvent ourselves and build our brands better.

SPEAKER_03 37:11

Yeah, I I actually agree with you completely. I every time I go out, uh, you know, like I'm sitting here thinking about it. I'm going to a Rockies game tonight and uh going out with a couple guys that I, you know, I don't know, and and and you sit there in the stands and you're drinking your beer and chatting about what you do. And every time I tell people what I do, they're just like, you do what? You you there's still trains. And and they joke about it, right? Like they laugh it off. Uh but the reality is uh that is, I think, the general public, just because it's such a B2B business, it's not only B2B, it's it's B2B behind, you know, at the tip of the iceberg where we're hauling uh you know things that the general public will never touch. Uh it makes it difficult to explain how important it is with what we do. Uh we had a massive amount of downloads on our podcast about the hyperloop. Uh people are excited about tech. The hyperloop is interesting too because it's uh in an essence it's a railroad in a tube. So it's the the interest is there. Um it's just I I always I wouldn't say struggle with, but I always find it interesting to get people excited about what we do. Now, don't get me wrong, by the end of the game, uh I'll have these guys excited about what it is I do and what it is we do. Um but yes, I I think that sometimes, you know, in 1976, if I went to a game, uh Rockies didn't exist, so I guess we'll just go to the Yankees Stadium. Uh, you know, they'd say, Wow, yeah, absolutely, I know I know exactly I know what it is. My grandfather probably worked for the railroad, my dad rode the railroad, like so the connection is slowly getting lost, right? Uh, and I feel like that sometimes is difficult. It has to be somewhat difficult for someone like you going out and talking with young people and saying, No, really, you need to go work for Norfolk Southern. Yeah, you need to go, you need to make an appointment with Ed Sparks at CSX and listen to what he has to say. Uh, am I wrong?

SPEAKER_01 39:15

No, that that's the funnest part, honestly, is like seeing people's reaction be like, so not Amtrak? And then you explain like this whole other world. It's like unveiling something in their the one of their eyes just gets bigger and bigger. And my literally my opening line is usually, hey, you want to talk about trains? And people are like, What? Like, yeah, come on, come here. Let me let me show you. I'll bring a model, I'll show them this is an engine and this is a car, and you can do the marketing for this company, or you can be, you know, a tech person over here. And and then all of a sudden it's a conversation. But something, you know, those fun facts that we have about sustainability and how great and green, you know, the the rail industry really is for overall um you know, greener solutions and things like that. It you know, the same thing um holds true with how strong strong we impact the economy. And I think that's something that everybody can relate to too. And and one thing I say is, you know, when you're sitting at a crossing next time, count how many cars there are. If you have over a hundred car train, that's gonna tell you the strength of our economy right now. If you see a short train, yeah, maybe you know, you just got like a little connector or a little switcher going on, but chances are you're gonna see a pretty long train. And if that train is long and you're there for a couple of minutes, well, it's just a nice showing of how strong our economy is doing and what we're doing to bolster that that strength um for our nation.

SPEAKER_03 40:28

Yeah, absolutely. Rail car counts like you're talking about at a very high level uh are very much an indicator of what's going on uh with the nation's GDP. I'm going to end this um with the final question because I know this could go on for quite some time, but I also know that this is a Friday afternoon. This is a happy hour podcast that we've been recording. Uh no drinking has been involved in the making of this podcast. But uh Michelle, let's just wrap this up by by telling our listeners your what is your outlook on the next 10 years in the industry? Positive, negative, neutral? You seem like a very optimistic person, but I in your own words, what what would you say your outlook is on our industry?

SPEAKER_01 41:15

Well, I would say that we have a very strong future ahead of us. Um, we need the help of our next generation, though. So the the the way we are driven for the future is gonna depend on how we bring in this next generation. We need to excite them, we need to show them the way. We you know, we can't hold on to our egos and everything that we know like this. We have to relinquish a little bit of that knowledge, we have to build those mentorship programs, we have to cultivate them, we have to cultivate that interest once again. Um, so as long as we have the strength in our workplaces and that that passion and that you know how it kind of worked for me, it gets in your blood. If we can continue to make that um uh a reality, you know, I think we're gonna be looking in pretty good shape. Again, we have gone through recessions, railroads are still here. We how many other industries can you look at that says we've been around for a hundred years or more? Not many. Um we're not going away anytime soon. The only thing that we are gonna do is get stronger, and we're gonna we some of us might get bigger. Um, there's gonna be more opportunities as we start looking at you know the different uh liquefied gas and petroleum gas and all that that good stuff. Um, you know, there's there's plenty of room for opportunity, especially with technology, um, as automation starts to become a situation for some companies. Um so you know, there's there's just so much room for growth. Um, and and that growth is exactly what we need to be sharing with that next generation. It's exactly what we need to be communicating to that that audience. And as long as we can continue to inspire and get those people excited about our industry, which again, we're not doing a great job at right now, but if we can do that in the next 10, 20 years, we're not gonna have any problem whatsoever. Uh, in fact, I think we will once again come back as a king employer and we will have a real renaissance, and I think that's kind of what we're on a cusp of right now.

SPEAKER_03 43:04

Awesome. I don't want to have to follow that. So I am not gonna follow that. I'm gonna say that is a great way to end this podcast. I want to thank you for coming on this afternoon. I also want to thank you for being flexible with my uh schedule. This has been a rough week. Um, and I want all of our listeners, I hope you enjoyed this one. Uh it's kind of fun to talk about the industry at large and and just kind of address some of the things that we're all seeing out there as employers, employees, and and people that frankly have a vested interest in making this industry great. Well, I actually I go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

I just want to say one more thing. You know, if this is gonna reach um students, if this is gonna reach um other other candidates like that, and and I hope it will, and I know it will, um, make sure you are a part of Arima. Uh, it's a it's a great organization. They're one of the groups that actually has a student chapter. Um, so that's pretty amazing. Not a lot of other associations take that that dedication and commitment to their student side. So if if you can, you know, join ARIMA and if and if you need to know how to do that, I'm sure Walt or I or or anybody within our companies would be more than happy to guide you or take you under our wing at at some of the different um expo halls and annuals that that this group has. So make sure you get involved with AREMA.

SPEAKER_03 44:21

Perfect. All right, Michelle, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

Thank you for rolling with Arima on today's episode of Platform Chats. For further information about Arima, please visit arema.org or contact us at info at arema.org.