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Platform Chats
Platform Chats
Women in the Rail Industry
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It's Women’s History Month and on this episode, Walt interviews Cassandra M. Gouger (Union Pacific) and Krista Keene (Amtrak) as they reflect on the different paths and opportunities that led them both to a career in rail and leadership positions within AREMA. The group will touch on the history of women in rail, and the unique challenges women in the industry have faced since the 1960s. They’ll also discuss the importance of including diverse perspectives in the recruiting, hiring, and promoting processes. The industry has come a long way but there is still more work to be done and everyone can be an ally for diversity. From early education outreach to improving work/life, it's important to highlight and share the variety of career options available in the industry. Be it in the boardroom or on the track, no job in the railroad industry is off-limits.
I just feel like it's the final frontier, right? We have a female of a class one railroad. Um, and hopefully it broke the last ceiling, right? That now we can get to just relax and just continue to build up women um in the industry because diverse perspectives are just gonna make it better.
SPEAKER_02You may know the American Railway Engineering and Maintenance of Way Association, or AREMA, as the quote, keepers of the manuals. You may know them as the quote people behind the largest annual railroad conference in North America. Heck, you may not know about AREMA at all. This podcast is designed, no pun intended, to change your view of who AREMA is and how AREMA has changed the trajectory of many railway careers over its 100-plus year history. Welcome to Platform Chats with your host, Walt Blesser, where he takes a moment to discuss the impacts AREMA has had on the very people who are proud to be called members. Are you ready to roll with AREMA?
SPEAKER_00ARE Corporation is a proud supporter of Arima and Platform Chats. If you are looking to take your Railway Structure's career to the next level, or simply start it down the right track, please visit us at ARECorp.com. Please see our brand new job postings on our careers page or on our LinkedIn page.
SPEAKER_01Hey everybody, and welcome back to Arima's Platform Chats. I'm your host, Walt Blesser. If you've been following us, I think we're actually in season two, episode three. Every time I say that, I feel like, again, we're in some weird Netflix uh special where there's some guy or gal on a couch just binge listening to these season by season. Uh but that was Arima's choice to go with uh seasons and episodes to make us feel even fancier than maybe we are. Every time I do these, we oftentimes talk about where we are in the world of railway industry podcasts. But you know what? I'm gonna keep you guessing. I'm skipping that this month because I forgot to look before I started this podcast, but I'm just gonna guess we're in roughly the same place as we were last time. Uh so we'll keep the the interest heavy, and uh we'll cover that the next month. So hey, it is officially March, and that is Women's History Month. And a couple days ago was International Women's Day. So, unless you live under a rock, you probably saw all kinds of posts on LinkedIn, you saw posts on Instagram, you saw people congratulating each other and basically highlighting women in their industry. So I thought, man, there's no better time to highlight women in the railway industry because that's what we're doing here on the platform chats podcast. So today I uh hand-selected from a laundry list of names of women that I know in the industry and came up with two individuals that both work for railroad owners. Uh, these are not consultants. One of them works for the Union Pacific Railroad, one of them works for Amtrak, and they were actually selected on purpose because they one comes from a publicly held, publicly traded company with a stock ticker uh in the Dow Jones, and then the other one comes from a publicly owned, well, I'm sorry, privately owned, publicly funded from the government and uh amongst other places, I would assume. Amtrak. So both probably have very different experiences, not only in what it is they're shipping, what it is they're moving on the rails, but just their day-to-day uh life is very different from a railway perspective. So without further ado, I have Krista Keen from Amtrak. She's a senior manager at Amtrak, and she has been there a number of years. I've actually known her a number of years. And I also have Cassie Gauger, who is at Union Pacific Railroad, currently serving as a senior director of design. As usual, we will have them both give take an opportunity here and dig deep into their resume and their history of how in the world did they end up in the seats that they're sitting in now. And then we're gonna talk a little bit about their arema involvement and what they feel is uh why they feel it's necessary not only to be a member, but also to uh how has it benefited them as a uh in their careers? Uh and then we're just gonna open it up and we're gonna talk a little bit about ladies and women in the industry. And I think this is gonna be a fun one. So, Krista, I'm gonna let you kick it off. Why don't you just tell us just a little bit about how in the world you got heck, how'd you get on this podcast? Go ahead.
SPEAKER_04So, um, how I got involved in the railroad industry, I to me it's not very interesting, but I guess it might be to some others. Um, growing up, my dad was an electrician and he actually worked for Amtrak. He worked in Amtrak's mechanical department. So he was back in the day, um, Amtrak had a system of riders, is what they called them. And they actually rode the trains, the fancy metro liner service that we had back in the day, because that was very important that it got to New York on time, and they used to put techs on the trains in just in case any issues with the panagraphs or any of the systems on board. So he was one of those. So I grew up riding the train. I didn't necessarily think about working at Amtrak, but I did like it as a way to travel. Um, and then I went to college, and because my dad was an electrician, I tried electrical engineering. So I took the intro to EE class, you know, uh 101, and decided that was not what I wanted to do. It was not the most interesting to class in the world. And I was actually the only uh female in that class. And then um the college had a series of dinners in the engineering school, and I found civil engineering, and I was like, hey, that sounds cool, roads, bridges, things I I understand and like. So uh we had a professor who was very involved in TRB, and he used to I somehow get us sponsored to go and rooming and go to the conference. And I actually had a chance to meet Jolene Molatoris back when she was the head of the FRA. So a long time ago, and I saw her at a networking event down there. Um, and she actually said to me, the railroad is good for girls. Uh, so so stick with it, stick with the industry. So I said, okay, that seemed like good advice. She was very nice. Um, so then when I graduated uh from college, I went to work in consulting and I worked as a consultant to CSX doing their outside party projects. Then I came to work at Amtrak and uh worked in system production, so all the large-scale capital projects, undercutter, TLS, bridge jobs, that sort of thing in engineering. Then I left and went back into consulting and spent most of my time consulting two railroads, working on the DME project out in South Dakota, working a lot for Amtrak New Jersey Transit with Portal Bridge, other stuff like that. And then I even moved up to Albany and worked on New York State high speed rail for two years. Then I ended up moving back to the area outside Philadelphia uh to be closer to my family and took a job back at Amtrak. And so I've been back. And this year is actually my 10th or 11th year in the railroad, technically as a railroad employee.
SPEAKER_01Oh, fantastic. So you must have grown up, if you grew up riding trains, I'm guessing you did not grow up in West Texas. I'm guessing you must have grown up, you must have grown up in the Northeast, is that right?
SPEAKER_04I did. I grew up right outside of Philadelphia in New Jersey.
SPEAKER_01Okay, because you know, I'll I will tell you that out west, throwing around the term panagraph uh might get a couple people scratching their heads. Um we don't we don't see a lot of highly electrified lines out here. Uh I guess you do now, Cassie, don't you? From Denver Airport to Union Station, we get to see those. And what a great transition. I bet you never thought panagraph would be the transition to Cassie Gauger at Union Pacific Railroad. Take it away.
SPEAKER_03All right. Uh I'm going to be dating myself here. So when I started university, I had no thought of being in the railroad industry. Um, I went to an engineering school and was asked to participate in a co-op program. And I was lucky enough to do that in Chicago at the time when all of the highway funding was drying up. And I looked over and I was like, well, that group is busy. And I went over and I said, uh, can I work in your group? Because I don't want to just sit around. And that was my initial taste of the railroad on the engineering perspective back in the late 80s. Okay. So that's when I first started uh my love of the railroad industry.
SPEAKER_01And when you say the late 80s, just so we're clear, Ed Sparks started in the late 1880s, but you're talking 1980s, yeah. Okay, thank you, Cassie.
SPEAKER_03Century difference there. Yeah. Um so uh I finished uh college, then I stayed on the consultant track. And then about 11 years ago, I was like, hmm, halfway through my career, I would really like to work for a class one railroad. So it just so happens I wasn't in a REMA conference. No, we're not going to a REMA yet, but uh with the contact there was like, hey, is it too late for me to work for a class one railroad? So it wasn't, and I have been here for 11 years and I love it. Um, the railroad industry is fast-paced. You get to see your projects done right after you design them, and they want you to design them as fast as you possibly can. And you know, it's just exciting. I have been on the highway side, and that is a much slower pace uh industry. And so the railroad industry really aligns with my short attention span.
SPEAKER_01Fair enough. Fair enough. And then you're in private industry, and you speak of the highways, which is technically, I guess, the public funding. And speaking of which, I guess would be Amtrak. So I guess Cassie, would you say you see the same high-paced uh speed of design and construction and bridge replacements that Cassie sees over there at UP?
SPEAKER_04I would say not quite. Um things have a tendency to get designed when funds are available, and then um, but put on the shelf as ready. So I would say when money becomes available, we try to make the most of it and design those projects, get them as further along as we can, identify early action items if there's additional funds available to get the construction going. Um, we are, of course, I'm sure like everyone highly anticipating the infrastructure money that is soon to be available. Um even though that would affect it will affect us internally with capital projects, but it'll also affect us with our external partners, as I'm sure UP will experience with all the DOTs and bridge replacements and everything they're looking to do.
SPEAKER_01So I am so glad you brought that up. I know uh the last time that we talked about public funding of infrastructure, the I was in the consulting space and it was something around uh I don't remember what year it was, but I kept hearing the term shovel ready, shovel ready. And what Matt, exactly what you just said, there was that quote unquote perfect set of plans sitting on the shelf for XYZ bridge replacement or whatever they think you guys could go out and just spend that money and show the public that you're making improvements. That infrastructure, Bill, not to go down a rabbit hole here, but I can totally see how that affects Amtrak. And I think most of our listeners understand that. Cassie, how does that affect you? And if you don't completely understand, that's totally fine. I'm guessing you do. But how how what would you kind of the yin to the yang of what Krista just said?
SPEAKER_03So uh one thing I should have gone into is what I actually do for Union Pacific. So um I head up uh the design group. So any new capacity, whether it's um uh capacity of the mainline or commercial facilities bringing on business that requires new capacity, um, comes through our group. So we also have um public group that works with the public agencies on projects. And so we're very aligned with what kind of funding is out there uh to try to align on public-private partnerships that our group will either help build if it's for UP capacity as a mitigation measure to a public project, or for instance, a commuter line wants to come on and therefore we have to add more capacity. So, yeah, we are uh as a company very aligned with what kind of funding's available and what kind of projects that we're working with the public agencies to move forward to get some of that funding.
SPEAKER_01Excellent. So I'm hearing uh this is good news all around, really, for both both our Amtrak's and our and our class ones and shortlines, etc. This is uh, man, I I gotta tell you, my brain's just spinning. I have so many questions for the two of you, and you guys have had really excellent careers in the industry, and I've I've been aware of both of you for quite some time. So this is fun for me, and I'm gonna do my absolute best to stay at a level that's not overly excited, like a chihuahua. I'm gonna go more like maybe maybe Labrador. That might not be a good example either. So uh that was interesting what I just said. Uh let's move on. Arima. Arima involvement. That's why we're here. And I think it would be great if we could do the same thing we just did, if Krista could talk a little bit about her involvement. When did you find out about Arima? When did you join? Were you forced by your boss? Uh or did you seek it out? I've heard all kinds of great stories about Arima. And what is your involvement today?
SPEAKER_04So um, I'm trying to remember the first time I heard of Arima. I think it was when I really started working on railroad projects. And of course, many of the railroads, even though we have our own design standards, were also saying reference arema, reference arrima. So I believe one day I said to someone, hey, what is this Arima? And they're and basically they were like, it's a set of manuals. So they pointed me in the direction of the gray binders in the office, because of course we didn't have like the server copy or a digital copy then. They were like, it's over there. That's a Rima. And I'm like, okay. So, you know, I go to look through them. And then I heard other people say stuff about Arima, and I was like, well, they just published the manuals, right? And they're like, oh no, they have a conference and this and that. So I kind of researched going to it. I think the first year I went, um, I paid for myself to go because I was so interested in it. And, you know, we've already maxed out like how many people in the office could go. Um, and I remember I went and sat in in a couple committees to see which one I wanted to be on, and I very quickly became involved in committee 17. At the time when I started the involvement, Frank Miller was heavily involved in committee 17. So, and we worked together. So I somehow, you know, within a couple of months I ended up being secretary of the committee. It's one of those, like, hey, you showed up, you're new here.
SPEAKER_01Like so, what what is, and I'm sorry, 17 is what?
SPEAKER_04High speed, uh, high speed passenger systems.
SPEAKER_01Okay, high speed passenger rail systems.
SPEAKER_04Sorry, yes. I feel like that's like code lingo. Um high speed passenger systems.
SPEAKER_01Join and immediately became secretary.
SPEAKER_04Yes. Um, and then I ended up being secretary for a couple years because someone had left and I was finishing out his term, and then I did like another three years, and then I moved up to vice chair and then chair uh of the committee, which are typically three-year terms. And then recently I just moved on to director of the PT Passenger and Transit Functional Group.
SPEAKER_01Oh, fantastic. That's is that new this year, right? As of fall? Yes, new this year. Cool. That is outstanding. That's uh so you really were somewhat interested on your own.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01And then you just jumped right in.
SPEAKER_04Yes. I mean, the best way to figure out what's going on is being involved in the committee. I feel obviously by being secretary and stuff, I've learned a lot. I've learned all about rules of order, things, things that I don't necessarily know, but I think about them when I'm in a meeting at work. Like we should vote on that. I think we should put that in the parking lot.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think we need a motion, yeah, and we need discussion, and I'd like to spend sometimes.
SPEAKER_04I think our teams meetings would go better with them.
SPEAKER_01Uh I understand. Um, however, I just left a committee seven meeting where we spent an hour talking about should and shall. And I said, gentlemen, this is why people don't want to join a REMA. So let's let's knock that stuff off. Cassie, try to follow that one.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's gonna be difficult. Okay, so I was lucky in my career when I started co-oping in Chicago, and that's where all the annual conferences used to be. Um, so and being a student member, I was able to go for free, and I was literally the only female, and it was very frightening at the late 80s and early 90s, and I was just like, it was very overwhelming. Um so I stayed a student member. I didn't become a permanent member until 20 years ago, because this is my 20th anniversary of being an AREMA member. Um, and then it took a couple more years to get um more involved on the committee level. And I started attending uh committee 24, which is education and training, which is where we develop a bunch of uh different seminars and webinars. Uh we do not have a chapter in the manual. Um so we focus on trying to get student chapters, student involvement, all of that outside goals of ARIMA. And so the when I got involved on the leadership, I was on maternity leave and voted in as secretary. So that is how my tenure started. Um and I followed the same path, right? I was uh secretary, um vice chair, then chair. I took a year off, and then I'm a year and a half in on my uh board of director for the um engineering services functional group.
SPEAKER_01Okay, fair enough. So you there was a little hiatus there. So you said you went to the uh, I'm guessing it was at the Palmer House or something back in the day. Yes, it was. Okay. And then you took 10, did did it scare you so much that you took 10 years off?
SPEAKER_03Well, and I th I was so busy uh because I was working for consulting firms and traveling all around that I uh evidently thought I didn't have the time for it, or I was a little scared off. So it was probably a combination of the two that was like, hmm, I don't know if that's for me. I was a little bit intimidated for sure.
SPEAKER_01Fair enough. Because I contrast that with the fact that you, I know, have twin children and uh work in a class one railroad environment, and now you have leadership positions. So that's that's uh quite the yin and the yang there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And you're a bit of an Arima OG. I have to say, Cassie, um, I really am happy you brought up the fact that you went in there and you were the only female. Uh in preparing for this podcast, you know, I was just reading a little bit about women in the railway industry, and it's as not that long ago that they were not even, I wouldn't quite say allowed, but it took the 1960s and 70s legislation to uh basically end sex discrimination and have equal pay to men in the railway industry. Uh I read a 2015 article in Progressive Railroading about the fact that uh as of 2015, only 5% of S P 500 companies had had uh female CEOs, and zero of the seven class ones had female CEOs. And even the workforce, uh Union Pacific, only had six percent of their workforce was female. CSX 7%. Amtrak 23. Uh now that was seven years ago. I think a lot of things have changed. What I'd love to hear from both of you your reactions to some of those facts. And uh we keep starting with Krista, and I see it's gonna be Cassie's gonna go first this time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so our numbers have actually gone down for women overall. We have five point four percent women. Uh, we have a goal to get Up to 11% by 2030. But yeah, our our 5.3% is our percent. And we have a higher percent in the management, but in the field, we're we're laying flat about 2.4%. So if you think of that of the 20, of the 32,000 employees, we only have 5.3% women. So it's a big goal of our company to get that up to 11% in the next nine years.
SPEAKER_01And what what is UP doing about that? Are they recruiting differently or are they are they doing some are they trying to do something different?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so how we um interview, we're actually going out to craft um technical schools, really trying to focus in on letting people know that the railroad is an industry that you can come to. Um overall, we're trying to have a better work-life balance as we can in the field. That's pretty difficult. We're, you know, 24-7, 365 organization. Um so they're really taking a step back and looking at that. And in the hiring process, um, we have to have a diverse panel of interviewers. Um, and we really strive to have a diverse panel of um resumes to work through. But we will hire the best person. So um we're still, you know, push in to try to influence that number.
SPEAKER_01Oh, absolutely. I mean, there's only so much you can do in that sense, but I think a lot of people forget that, you know, at a class one railroad in any of these railroads, you know, not all the jobs are like yours sitting in an office. There's so many are in the field welding rail, you know, moving around ties and ballast and working on bridges. And then there's all the locomotive and the mechanical shops, right? And everything else uh to deal with that. Krista, how does those numbers hit you?
SPEAKER_04Um so I think it reminds me a lot of back in the day being in engineering school. Um, I think we still even, and and as you just mentioned, when we see the women in the railroad industry and even at work ourselves, when you see women in a high position, like all of our executives that are are women, it is our general counsel, it's human resources, and it's it's our CFO. So to me, it's none of the the it's not mechanical, it's not the transportation department, it's not the engineering department. So I think as well as we do, we're still it it still all seems to be in one way, as Cassie mentioned. I think when you look at the numbers of of where the women are, you know, we have a lot of station operations, we have a lot of customer service relations positions based on the nature of our business, um, conductors on the trains, the LSA is on the trains. Uh you don't see them in the MW forces. Um, there's still not as the presence in engineering that I think there should be, or that I think folks in engineering would say there should be. So I think it's still we're working on it. Diversity and inclusion, they're consistently always working on it. They put a big push into that in the last two years. But you have to have the applicants to hire them. So I think a lot of that starts back, you know, in colleges and even at home. I would say, you know, my parents had very much of you can do a whatever you want philosophy, you know, sky's the limit. So I think that's really the message you always want to get to people. Like there's no specific industry or jobs that are, you know, for any one person.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I and I think you're when I go back to those percentages, right? Uh Cassie updated mine to 5.4%. Yours was at 23%. Uh I I do think people uh west of the Mississippi specifically uh forget, you know, about the Northeast Corridor, they forget about all the stations from DC to Boston and everywhere in between. Uh you just uh there's a lot of opportunities. There's a just a different uh front, I guess, is is the way I would put it, versus if I look at Cassie sitting in Omaha and running coal and and and intermodal and stuff like that versus human beings. So there's different jobs available, I guess is where I was going with that. And and historically, you just named I you know human resources and CFOs and frankly attorneys, right? Uh are are classically versus M and W. Uh you just see a different profile. So how do we fix it? I mean, I obviously the two of you aren't gonna fix that today. Uh I have yet to fix anything in my life, according to my wife. So how do we how do we change the industry? How do we make by 2030 that 5.4% go to 11%, like Cassie said? Is it you know, Cassie, uh assuming you probably do the same thing, going out to universities, etc., what do you tell that, you know, you know, twinkle in the eye, 21-year-old, 22-year-old getting ready to graduate uh from U of University of Nebraska? What do you tell them about Union Pacific? Because I guarantee you, if she grew up in the area, she's heard about it.
SPEAKER_03Right. And, you know, it kind of combines, you know, what we're doing at the railroad uh also with what committee 24 is doing with the student chapters, and we're also trying to even go K through 12 to get people interested in the railroad industry. And, you know, I go and talk to my local schools um about railroading, um, and I love seeing the twinkle in the eye of these young girls uh so that they will join the industry. I mean I've had some uncomfortable situations in my career, um, but where companies are going now, I just it's hard to even imagine that it's a thing anymore, right? I think we've just come so far. And so I really don't even think about it anymore, which is um an interesting kind of progression in my career because I've been really lucky to have, which I could say male allies, right? That's the new buzzword being allies. Um and that's kind of what we're pushing at the company is having male allies, right? We had an interesting statistic of 84% want to be allies, but 50% of those don't know what that means, right? So it's education. Um, really, so that kids, women don't even think about have to think about it, right? I mean, that's the ultimate goal. But to answer your question is I would, you know, if they were interested in civil engineering and I would just talk to them about, you know, what there is to offer at the railroad. I mean, it's an awesome job, it's super fun, it's fast-paced. Um and just it's a lifelong journey. Uh I've been here 11 years and they're my family, right? It's more than a job to me. I can't imagine not doing this. And you would think that they would see, you know, the twinkle in my eye about you know what I've been able to experience here at the railroad.
SPEAKER_01I I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, I know you're a little further down the the path of parenthood with your I think your children are 12, if I remember right.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01I have one that's two and a half and one that is a half. And you know, my hope is that you know, when they're in their uh twenties, 20 years from now, that you know, when they look at an individual, whether they're purple, black, brown, white, women, male, they don't think about they they just it's a person. That that's you know, I what you just described is that transformation that you've seen in your career. And I hopefully that next generation of people, that's where they'll be. We won't even have to talk about it. I that's some pretty powerful stuff you said. And Krista, I'm gonna say good luck following it, but uh please do.
SPEAKER_04Um, I think I like I like to think that I've taken a very proactive approach when it comes to it. Um I've tried to be involved as much as I can in any programs with um high school students or below to discuss railroading whenever I'm asked to come talk or do anything in any place. I always do. I like to see it as just getting the information about the industry out in general before focusing on who and what and and where, just like this is a good career, you know, it's still a great place to work, there's still a lot of longevity. You know, for some of us, retiring at 60 can be an attractive option as well. Um, you know, here at Amtrak, we have the benefit of um travel. You know, you can travel the whole country. So that's also a nice um thing. I actually also take a lot of pride in where I work. I mean, just despite what some people's viewpoint might be, you know, I can take a plane and I can get there faster. I take a lot of pride in where I work because I can see it every day. I the train runs literally, you know, as Cassie said, 24-7, 365. It's a service. We're there, we have people working every day, everybody's dedicated, you know, people are working holidays, people are working nights. It's I think it takes a special type of person to want to be in an industry like that. Um, and so that's what I try to impart upon people, but also if the 365 lifestyle isn't for you, there are plenty of jobs here with an Amtrak where that's not a requirement, right? There are many things you can do in here. And I've worked with some people on that too. I've worked with some um mentoring some folks that were in college, and they went into like government affairs, like community relations type field, which is very important to the railroad to us. I know it's important to the class ones as well. Community relations is always a big, a big field, so it's and it's very important to us. So I think that's like I try not to get saddled into just engineering because that's what I know, and just saying there's so many opportunities here, regardless of what your interest is.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I that's that I think uh we and the last podcast we did that was covered pretty heavily, and I completely agree with that. It's just such a wide uh array of things that you can do within one company, right? And you can kind of get to taste a little bit of something. If you don't like it, you can move on. I know, oh gosh, several years ago I worked on an Amtrak project, and uh gentleman named Jim Richter was telling me about the management trainee programs that you have there. Is is that something similar where people get to try a little something different for a certain period of time? Krista, I don't, because I don't know.
SPEAKER_04Yes, so we have um they have them in a couple different groups, and I know, I know um, I think the class ones even have them a little more um regimented and scheduled. I think ours are a little our transportation one is pretty, it's like almost a defined career path. Like you come into the trainee program, but they have you work, I think every six months you're changing into a different part of operations in transportation. And then depending upon that, you go into be like a station master or um into train operations, different, different things they have in engineering as well. Skylar, who was on the podcast the other week, he was what we call a map, which is a management associate program. Then they end up calling them maps. Um, so I think it's been very successful for us. Also, um, as Cassie mentioned, like she was a co-op. We've tried to develop a lot of relationships with the nearby colleges. You know, we have Drexel, Temple, we have a lot here right around 30th Street, not to mention in DC, Boston, and our other locations, but right here where I am, they've tried to make a lot um closer relationship with the nearby colleges, do more of the career fairs just to put the the name out, so to speak.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Yeah, that's that is uh that's interesting. There's there's obviously a focus, there's obviously a push. We're seeing change. I mean, as we look to the future and we close this podcast out, I you know, Katie Farmer, we we haven't even talked about the fact that she she's a female CEO of a Class One Railroad, right? Uh of B and SF. So like when you guys saw that hit the news wire, how it how'd that make you feel? And and frankly, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, but I I believe CN just uh appointed a female CEO of of their railroad. Does that did that even hit your guys' radar, or were you just like, uh, yeah, that's in that's interesting?
SPEAKER_04I would say it hit my radar. Of course, I think you always have a little bit of uh why can't it be us?
unknownSure.
SPEAKER_04Um uh but no, I I think I pretty I watch closely, you know, Railway Age, Progressive Railroad, all the industry publications out there that you get. I watch closely when there are management management changes to see, you know, who's moving up and what and I actually like to read what their career path was before, you know, how did they get to that level? Like, did they come in from the outside? Did they work their way up? Were they in consulting? So, no, I saw it when Katie Farmer, I can't say I saw CN yet.
SPEAKER_01I might be wrong about that, just so we're quick.
SPEAKER_04But I definitely saw when Katie Farmer was CEO. I always make mental note of those things. And we've actually been pretty fortunate because when uh like when I met Jolene Molatoris and she was the head of the FRA, then past her were a couple more gentlemen, and then recently they've been there's been more females back at the head of the FRA again. So I keep I keep an eye on all those things. But to Cassie's point earlier, I feel like I shouldn't have to, right? It shouldn't be weird. It shouldn't be news. It's like, all right, some other person I don't know is CEO now.
SPEAKER_01Like Yeah, that's actually probably the best take. Cassie, anything you want to pile on there?
SPEAKER_03No, I just feel like it's the final frontier, right? We have a female of a class one railroad. Um and hopefully it broke the last ceiling, right? That now we can get to just relax and just continue to build up women um in the industry because diverse perspectives are just gonna make it better.
SPEAKER_01That is clear and concise and a fantastic sound bite. I could not agree with you more. How about a Rima? Let's let's finish there. Like how uh I I can tell you guys uh my first meeting was in 05 and the Palmer House Hilton, and it it it was not diverse um at all. Uh so I guess I fit right in. Uh so with you know, I don't think that's a good thing, frankly. I I remember thinking that as a young buck, and now I'm 42, you know, and and uh I don't know what it when I'm 62 and I go to a Rima, uh what do you guys think that's gonna look like?
SPEAKER_03Gosh, I think it's just gonna be more and more diverse. Uh I feel it has to, right, to um be representative of the industry, right? I think everybody's pushing, uh rightfully so, to get those diverse perspectives. And I think being on committee 24, there uh has a higher percentage of women than probably the others. And I can see just over the last 20 years the big uh difference. And I think one of the benefits of joining as a female is you do build those allies, right? So me being uh definite minority going and making friends, and now I feel like they're family members all across the railroad industry, is just changing perspectives that they'll be an ally for whoever is able to do the work, no matter what they look like. So I just feel that whatever anybody can do to further that, just so that it's becomes a non-issue.
SPEAKER_04So I'll share some of my aremaisms. My first committee, well, my first conference that I went to in 2006, I was, you know, um headed steadfast to a committee meeting, and I had someone stop me and ask me if I was looking for the spouse program. Oh boy. And I was like, no, and I wasn't married, so I'm like, I don't even know what he's asking me. So I'm so confused. I figured it out later. Um so and to me, I mean, 2006, that's still kind of late for that. But I think to Cassie's point and to your point, well, because if you started there in 2005, like it was still kind of an anomaly. You know, my boss was like, okay, meet me at down at the you know, general session and just look for me. I was like, I have an idea, like, why don't you look for me? Because I'll probably stand out more. Like it'll be much easier for you to find me. But I think that's why it's also been very important for me to stay involved with Arima, because I do want to be out there and be a face for for younger engineers coming up and younger members in general, that you know, Arima is diverse, that we are putting that forward, that we do have, you know, there's still not that many when we have our board of directors meetings, directors and VPs for functional groups. There's not enough as far as I'm concerned. Um, you know, we haven't had a female president of Arima yet. You know, it was a big deal for our country when we have a female vice president. So it's it's still in 2022. So I think those are the things like Arima can follow along with.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I hear you. I that's like saying, hey, I'm uh honey, I'm heading to the Broncos game. Uh you might see me on TV, I'll be the guy in the orange jacket in the stadium. Yeah. Just look, look, look real hard. Yeah. I'll I'll be I'll be I'll be I'll be cheering.
SPEAKER_04I'll be the cheese the cheese head in Green Bay. Is that what they look at?
SPEAKER_01Maybe you should look for me. Yeah. Oh man, that was good.
SPEAKER_04And honestly, not even from uh from a uh standpoint of of of being a woman, but also age, I feel like the organization is also getting younger.
SPEAKER_01I I agree. I I do think we are seeing, you know, people talk a lot about the great uh resignation this fall, etc. And I I I feel like the great retirement is happening too. I mean, I feel like if you are in your 40s right now, you you you the people that were your mentors, there were there are a lot of mine, they're gone. And they left almost at the same time. Uh, and there's gaps. And uh and those guys weren't you know writing everything down in emails and sending them out on their way out. Uh they were they was you know between the old the old ears. Uh so it'll be interesting. So Denver this fall is the Arima National Conference, and I guess we'll just have to see how things turn out. But I I I have a good feeling it'll be a stark contrast to 2006. That's that's my hope.
SPEAKER_04And definitely to when Cassie first went. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04And and that made her take a 10-year hiatus.
SPEAKER_01Perhaps this is not for me. I'll come back when they catch up to me. I'll give them a decade. Okay, I'm back, and I joined in 02, and life's good. So I would like to thank both of you, not only for being on the podcast, but being excellent representatives of the industry and being fantastic representatives of Arima. Both of you have given uh countless hours to the committees that both of you work on, and both of you I know are on the board now, and I can tell you right now, I guarantee someone who's listened to this is has considered you a mentor or has considered you someone that they look up to, and you're very likely uh providing that twinkle in the eye for someone in the industry. So keep it up. I I appreciate it. I look forward to seeing both of you in Denver. Um, and I say this on every podcast. I appreciate Arima coming to Denver for me so that I don't get in trouble with parenting duties in September.
SPEAKER_04So are you our tour guide?
SPEAKER_01Uh absolutely. Whatever you want. Obviously, there's certain uh substances that this industry needs to stay away from. Uh, and we will not be breaking any FRA rules as far as that's concerned.
SPEAKER_03And I'm just gonna put it out there that Krista should be the first president of a Rima. Oh. Female president. There we go. It's out there, Krista.
SPEAKER_04Thanks, Kathy.
SPEAKER_01It is out there on on on the this this folks, this is why you listen to platform. This kind of hot ticket doesn't come across a podcast in the rail industry every day. And with that, I I'm not touching that one. Thank you both.
SPEAKER_04With your 10 million listeners.
SPEAKER_01That's right.
SPEAKER_04Wait, you have to say give us a five-star review on uh whatever. That's what my podcasts always say at the end.
SPEAKER_01Yes. I I'm not a beggar. We just expect that if we do a good job, that that'll come. Thank you guys both, and uh, we will see you in Denver. Yes. Thanks, Walt.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for rolling with Arima on today's episode of Platform Chats. For further information about Arima, please visit arema.org or contact us at info at arema.org.
